The Genesis Project

Nice to see a workaround, but I think it's fair to say that Adobe can't expect Premiere customers to buy additinal plugins to support such a widespread format. Especially when thinking about the support for the format in similar and even lower end applications.

[DR - I don't think as Adobe we expect you to purchase a plugin to support AVCHD. Rather, I'm publicizing a solution to a popular format that we currently don't support. The fact of the matter is that there are always emerging formats and as a software provider, we can't support them all as quickly as we would like.

This is why I think it so important to point out that only Adobe offers an SDK to allow companies like Main Concept to support AVC HD and offer CHOICE to customers. THe ecosystem of hardware/software providers allows users to choose to expand their available list of codecs and workflows.

And yes, I think AVC HD is important and its probably a questions of WHEN and not IF we support AVC HD. We just don't have it today.

Hello, can you please help me.
The new mainconcept plug-in has a huge price, can you please send to
guntars.gulbis@gmail.com serial #, please...

[DR - Sorry Guntars, but that is not possible. You can download the trial and give it a spin to make sure it will work for you, but I am not the owner of Main Concept (DIVX now is) and so it's up to them to sell software as they see fit.]

Does this support ACV-Intra too?

If you use Cineform instead can you read the files to transcode to the intermediate?

[DR - as far as I know, it does not support AVC-Intra at this time. Also with compatibility between Cineform and MainConcept...It would entirely depend on what your final edit codec would be and whether it would read the other. However, I would be that there would be a way to make it work in principle. Given that both offer a 15 day trial, I'd go for it and see what happens. ]

Lets see...youre one of the leading software companies and you DONT have support for a format that is essentially all over the planet already available to consumers everywhere for as little as 500 bucks. Get real. How can you let AVCHD sneak up on you? That bus has been comin' a long time ago. One thing is for sure, not supporting AVCHD is a BIG reason NOT to buy your software, so I'd get the lead out if I were you.

[DR - Ahh, Rob you're a feisty one! AVCHD didn't sneak up on us. Unfortunately, we just can't do everything as quickly as we would like. There are not an infinite amount of resources available. I know that sounds like a cop out, but it's our reality.

And...I do stand behind my belief that our open platform and public SDK's allow for our partner community to offer value to those customers who already have AVCHD cameras. Thanks for your comment.]

I've been buying Premier for over 10 years. Faithfully each new version I upgrade to. Currently I have CS3. Unfortunately it has frequently seemed that they always leave out a key format or feature that other much less expensive packages include. Learning that my CS3 suite does not support AVCHD is probably the last straw. I'm tired of paying so much and being disappointed. I likley won't upgrade to the new version but find another product. Sorry. I think I'll miss Premier but like a bad marriage, sometimes you have to just move on.

[DR - Mike, I know the pain you experience. We at Adobe feel it as well. Ideally, we'd like to support everything the day it comes out. However, the plain simple truth is that we have limited resources (just like everyone else) and have to pick and choose what we think is the most important things for any given release. We just missed the timing on this one.

I'm confident we will support AVC HD, and as I mention in the article, we do have support through our partners.

We care about our customers and are committed to bringing best of class software to each and every one. Give us some time Mike and I hope we can please you.]

So, any word on from the Adobe side on this?

The Main Concept solution looks interesting, but PC only (no Mac!) and pricy.

BTW nothing comes up on the Adobe web site when I search for AVCHD from the home page!

[DR - no word thus far Kirk]

I'm going to have to agree with the others. Not supporting AVCHD is a deal breaker. I find the limited resources argument a little weak seeing as Adobe is a much larger company that many of the others that have implemented AVCHD editing and at a lower price point.

Apple's Final Cut Express 4, Final Cut 6.01, CyberLink's PowerDirector 6, Sony Vegas 7.0e, Vegas Pro 8, and Vegas Movie Studio Platinum 8, Corel's Ulead VideoStudio 11 Plus, Pinnacle's Studio Plus 11, and Avid Xpress Pro and Avid Media Composer, Canopus' EDIUS Pro 4.5, not to mention Nero 7/8 Ultimate.

Why not wipe the egg off and sub-contract it out.

[DR - Tim, thanks for the comments.

AVCHD is important to us and I'm sure we're working on it. However, we don't have it today and the intent of the article is to highlight one of Adobe's advantages to the customer which is our partners. Because we are the only large company to still publish public SDK's we have a partner ecosystem that no one else has. It provides the AVCHD support, though all agree that they'd like Adobe to provide it.

As far as resources go, whether the limited resources argument is valid to you, it doesn't change the fact that it is true. We have well over 50 product including some rather large ones like Photoshop, Flash and Acrobat. It is a balancing of resources as every software company does. We just missed the timing on this one which I think I've clearly communicated.

Lastly, while Adobe is a large company, you mentioned Sony and Apple (much larger) as well as Grass Valley and Avid (large). Can't deny though that some small companies have built in some kind of support for AVCHD whereas we haven't. Again, it's something we want to fix soon.

I will ping the product manager on this and make him aware of the people posting comments here. If I get something back from him, I'll be sure to let you know.

I just got a Sony SR8 and want to edit AVCHD files natively. I purchased the Web Premium package and thinking of upgrading to the Master Collection to edit with Premiere but now thinking of going with Sony Vegas now because I'm not into work around solutions or additional plugins. Do you think Premiere will ever offer direct editing or do I have to spend another $450 on a plugin?

[DR - Yes, I do believe we'll have it. The question for you is when. If you need to edit AVC HD now then the Main Concept plugin should work for you.]

I upgraded from Acrobat, Illustrator, Flash and Photoshop as separate packages to the full CS3 Master Collection to get some of the audio and video products as I am working on those things now. I obviously assumed it would do everything I needed. What a suprise I find when I got to import an AVCHD file and nothing!

VERY DISSAPPOINTING GUYS!

I feel like I just wasted a HUGE wad of cash on a product I cannot use unless I want to spend yet another $450 for the plugin. I guess I should have done a little more research before I made the upgrade. You all know what happens when you assume.

I have to agree. Shame on Adobe for this one. I have been a solid user of Adobe products for 10 years - plus. I have chosen Adobe for the editing and compositing side of my broadcast production pipeline. We have a bunch of ENG type footage coming in as AVCHD. I cannot believe that with as many cameras out there shooting AVCHD. Adobe chooses not to make this a priority to support this format. Way to let down your customers. We rely on your software, innovation and stability in the industry. I wish you would step it up and get this one solved as part of the software, not an add-on.

[DR - Hi Marc. I can't really add much to what I've already said in other comments. AVCHD is important to Adobe and we will continue to work towards a solution. Our partners, which is a valuable commodity that no other vendor has, provide solutions for people today, albeit not perfectly.

At the risk of sounding defensive (which I'm not), I can point out that AVCHD cameras have not been in the market long and while their sales are brisk now, their overall penetration as compared to DV or even HDV are comparatively small. What Adobe hasn't accurately predicted is how quickly AVCHD is being embraced by the community and thus, this post. ;-)

Thanks for your comments and please be assured that I am doing everything I can to move the ball forward with regards to AVCHD support.]

What I don't hear coming back from the Adobe guy is:
1. We are working on it
2. It will be out by ____
3. It will be a free update
Please give concrete responses?

[DR - Hi Brent..

1. We are working on it.
2 & 3. I don't know. See #1

I know this doesn't help much, but 'dems 'da facts.'

Let me bring up one additional point in this whole discussion not as a defense but as a perspective. Adobe has been last to add certain features several instances before including multicam editing, Panasonic P2 and others. However, in being last, we also brought the best overall solution to the market. With Multicam, we allow type of mixed footage or even a sequence to be a camera. Competitors can't do that. Panasonic P2 implementation is completely native - no rewrapping or transcoding necessary - a true digital file transfer from P2 card to hard drive. Or even edit off the card. Most competitors can't do that.

With AVCHD, it is extremely difficult to have a smooth editing experience because of some of the same issues that revolve around MPEG2. Do you want native or wait for a transcode? Data rates, storage space? Real-time performance? These are just some of the issues at stake here. So, while some other companies are offering AVCHD solutions today, I can't help but wonder what the actual editing experience is.

I know this probably only fuels the fire, but I'm trying to give as much information here as possible...

My hope is that Adobe will be able to bring to market a compelling editing experience that takes into account both the customers needs as well as the technical difficulties of dealing with a delivery style codec. Time will tell and I will certainly attempt to deliver information as it becomes available.

Thanks as always for all of the comments and keep 'em coming. You have all been intelligent and forthright without being nasty - a too common occurrence in the blogosphere!]

http://www.adobeforums.com/webx?14@@.3c052631/137 has some solutions: Mainsoft's plug-in is reportedly slow (50% realtime), but Elecard's Converter Studio will downconvert to HDV well. Also an Adobe lab forum thread I can't get back to had an Adobe engineer recomending Black Magic's Intensity PCI card HDMI in & out as a hardware alternative until CS3 support is added.

[DR - John, thanks for the comments. I'll try to chase down the link and read up on it. The Intensity solution is a viable solution and Steve Whatley (After Effects Cookbook blog) has recently done some testing and forwarded the results. He really likes the quality. I think the idea of transcoding or capturing in a different codec other than AVCHD may be a mainstream one despite our typical aversion to doing it. Admittedly, I still have to read up on the technical stuff of AVCHD more before I can really sink my teeth into it. Again, thanks for the post.]

I have a Sony SR8E and totally support the comment of other frustrated Premiere users. I'd really appreciate an update when y9u have identified a cost effective work around and/or a timetable for inclusion within Premiere.

Many thanks in adavance

It is an interesting turn of appeal when being so hugely valuable, inventive and productive as Adobe is can lead to displeasure when it does not maintain the pace in particular areas.

This is understandable. We grow to depend on the developer as a business partner.

I have CS3 Master collection and know that when Adobe do support AVCHD it will be the best place for my editing of it. This, even discounting Premier Pro's prowess and simply because of the ease of use and integration of the other applications in Adobe's stable.

The comments here have been made in good humour and taken that way; don't see the above as censure.

The writing is on the wall however, AVCHD is big and it is pushed by large companies. It is big because it handles more data more cheaply. There will come a time even with focus on 'professional' formats that the alternative focus on lesser quality formats than AVCHD will downgrade the perception of applications.

Like others, I look forward to Adobe support with extreme eagerness.

[DR - Thanks for the comment Ian. I do appreciate your perspective.]

I appreciate the work that Adobe is doing to try and bring the AVCHD format to us.

I'm using Production Premium CS3 and Premiere Elements on my laptop for basic projects that don't need all the features. I would love to be able to use the format natively from my HDC-SD1.

That being said, is there any timetable yet on when Adobe might support this file format without a plug-in? I'm currently an Intensity pro for capture and using Nero to convert raw files from the card, but would honestly prefer a simpler work flow.

[DR - Travis, thanks for the comments. As to when we might add this functionality is something I can't comment on other than to say we're working on it and we want it as soon as you do! ;-)

One other comment about native AVCHD editing is that it is VERY cpu intensive. While many other solutions already have AVCHD editing on their marketing blurbs, the truth is that some of these are not very practical for the user. Our goal is to provide the best overall solution for the customer.

The Intensity card from Blackmagic Design is another very effective way to do AVCHD editing and one that I may not have mentioned previously. It's cost effective, gives you great resolution and avoids the CPU issue I mentioned. PLUS they have MAC drivers!]

"So, while some other companies are offering AVCHD solutions today, I can't help but wonder what the actual editing experience is."

I can't help thinking that as someone in the business of talking about Premiere Pro you should probably try out the competition yourself rather than merely wondering.

Suffice it to say that I'm in the market for an affordable HD camera for my video show and I'm using Premiere Pro for editing. All the cameras I find most attractive (Canon HG10, Canon HF100 and so on) are AVCHD based. I'm frankly shocked that a professional grade product like Premiere Pro can't handle a file format that seems to be becoming a defacto standard. I certainly didn't pay over £700 for Premiere Pro only to have to spend hundreds more on a plug-in that will quickly become redundant.

So all my whining aside - I've not actually BOUGHT an AVCHD camea yet so I have a question - what cameras should be on my list? I need HD support and a mic connector. That's about it. I'd like to spend somewhere in the region of £600. That means products around about the price of the Canon HG10. I'd go a little above that if there was good reason. And I don't want tapes - tapes are SO last century! ;-)

John

[DR - John, good points and I agree. Unfortunately, I don't get all of the cameras to play with and in fact have yet to give one a spin. I plan to ask Sony for one of theirs in the near future. As for trying my competition, I agree again and I do play with other products as much as I can. Right now it's an issue of time and having a camera.

So, as of today, I cannot recommend a camera because I have not even played with one. My advice is to look into the various manufacturers and read some of the forums.

Thanks for your comments.]

I think to some degree you are missing the point. Many of us cruise along for a version or two and then consider changing horses. I've been on PP for six years, roughly 150 broadcast programs. The answers you give reflect either arrogance or a lack of communication internally. I have just spent several hours taking another look at AVID. I would hate to see the very same characteristics that have cost them so dearly embed in the ADOBE family. This is a relationship built on trust. I think your approach ought to reflect you and your company's efforts to generate the confidence for us to invest our time and hard earned money in your product.

[DR - Reid, thanks for your comments and I appreciate your point of view. However, I would respectfully disagree with your overall assessment, but please don't take that as any sign of arrogance.

My point here in taking the time to respond to all of these comments is to specifically give the information that I have and address our customers concerns. To give you confidence that YES we do know that this is something we have to address. However, we do not have a native solution right now.

I agree that if Adobe takes a position of arrogance then we are doomed to failure, but I do not see that anywhere within the organization. Adobe takes rightful pride in our products and how we have changed the creative community over the years with products like Photoshop, After Effects, Flash and Premiere Pro. However, we do not advance those products from a position of arrogance: we get excited about how we can dramatically change the product to make it better.

Finally, in closing let me say that we care very much about the customers we service and that we do everything we can to make sure that you can TRUST Adobe to continue to change how you think about and create media. Hopefully, we've earned your trust for just a little bit longer.]

Hi there,

You must confess that this is a competitive market...
and Adobe is falling behind.
Not only do you not support AVC but have not provided a pathway for files generated by Sony's new EX1.
The result is... I have to put in an enterprise system, and because you guys have dropped the ball, I have to go with FCP.
I really thought you guys were gonna be agressive with PPro...I guess not.

Mike

[DR - Mike, Thanks for your comments. I am surprised you wouldn't wait until NAB to make a decision like that.]

Hi DR.
I am absolutely stunned at this forum. Everyone, absolutely everyone wants to know when you will support it. We hear that you will... sometime, but it's like holding our breath for who knows how long for. Break the ice and spill the beans. Seriously, this seems to be a joke!

[DR - Okay then Greg, here's the official statement (which you won't like): "Adobe does not comment on release dates of future products." See, I told you wouldn't like it. ;-) I'm saying this with a smile on my face, but sadly am not joking.

I understand everyones frustration which is why I conscientiously reply to each and every comment that shows up on this thread. I will reiterate that as soon as I have some more information that I can share, I absolutely will. I appreciate everyones patience.]

We just bought Adobe Creative Suite 3 Production Premium and I just installed it. I did not bother checking to see if it supported AVCHD. Adobe better not hold back AVCHD so it can be a CS4 feature.

Will AVCHD support ever be in CS3 or did we make a mistake buying CS3?

This application software (made and supported by Panasonic) transforms AVCHD clips recorded by Panasonic cameras into DVCPRO HD format.

This enables users to edit the clips on non-linear editors ( Like Premier Pro CS3) which do not support AVCHD but do support DVCPRO HD.
Available format: 1080i 59.94 and 1080i 50 are supported.

Use this URL:

https://eww.pavc.panasonic.co.jp/pro-av/support/desk/e/download.htm#avchd

[DR - Thanks Robert. I actually want to do a post on this kind of workflow as a viable alternative until Adobe has something. I was aware of this, but your post has reminded me to get busy on this!!! Thanks.]

I haven't got an HD camcorder but I do have a sony DVD DC505 camcorder that shoots to DVD. It creates mpeg files on the DVDs. I bought Adobe production Premier Pro studion so that I could edit and teach editing vedio to my students. The book says that CS3 supports mpeg but after 2 months of trying everthing we can think of, we haven't be able to import or capture any of it to edit. Whats wrong?

[DR - I doublechecked with my tech support and verified what I thought. Your camcorder does record MPEG2 but as a VOB (video object). Basically, you can do one of two things: Get Premiere Elements, which will natively read the VOB (part of the DVD spec) or copy the VOB from your camera to your computer and rename the extension to .MPG and you should be able to edit it no problem in Premiere Pro.

Hope this helps you!}

It's really insane that a professional piece of software like Adobe Premiere (and After Effects for that mather) doesn't support AVCHD.

I have to do some insane transcoding or use a crippled shareware plugin to get basic file format support.

Go ahead Adobe, treat your customers the same way Creative treats it's customers. And face the same consequences. Pinnacle, Sony Vegas, Final Cut Pro are all starting to sound like good alternatives.

I purchased my Sony HDR-SR1 1 year and 4 months ago. I've been very frustrated with the lag for AVCHD support from higher end video editors such as premier. I've had to downgrade much of my video to get projects completed and others are piling up into a backlog of work. What is the holdup? I know you can’t tell us when but out of pure frustration with the lack of information let me just say, lets get on the stick Adobe. If Premier’s support for AVCHD were an egg it would be so far beyond its due date it would be stinking to high heaven.

I have resited but it's time for a mac. Be sure to get Leopard operating system if you want avchd import to imovie. Final cut pro is what everyone in Hollywood uses anyway. Whenever I say I use CS3, the people here in Hollywood look at me like I have 2 heads.

Regards,
Nadia Valentine

[DR - Nadia, you've got a lot in here, but I'm going to answer with succinctness (hopefully! ;-)

Mac - that's great. I use a Mac all of the time. A key advantage to ALL users is CHOICE which is what some of the original intent of this post was about. Apple is a platform choice and Avid is a hardware choice. Adobe is software that is available on either platform.

Leopard - if you read amongst professionals, you'll quickly learn that Leopard has had a significant issues thus far. Throw in Quicktime and you have a recipe for trouble. So, I can't necessarily recommend Leopard right now.

FCP in Hollywood - I actually asked our hollywood guy to respond to this but I'll take a crack at this. Avid, Apple and Adobe all have presences in Hollywood. Avid is clearly #1 right now and there is a solid amount of FCP out there as well. BUT to say that Adobe isn't involved in hollywood would be a mistake.

http://www.adobe.com/cfusion/showcase/index.cfm?event=finder&productid=101025&loc=en_us

The above is a good place to start. Here's one on a major motion picture...

http://www.adobe.com/cfusion/showcase/index.cfm?event=casestudydetail&casestudyid=114473&loc=en_us

In short, Adobe products including After Effects, Photoshop, and Premiere Pro are in Hollywood today. A question for me would be what does AVC HD and Hollywood have in common? Do you think AVC HD will be a tool for independent film?

I hope this helps provide clarity to you and readers in general. Of course, this still doesn't address the lack of AVCHD(!) but as I've said, we're aware of the problem and working on it.

Thanks for your comments.]

At the moment I’m using Pinnacle studio 11 Ultimate for AVCHD video editing. It works well. I had several versions of Premiere before(5.1 being the first one), and there is nothing like it. Like all the other people in this blog I would like the AVCHD support in Premiere.
The top entry in this blog is from November. We are now 5 months later, and still no news. I have worked with software writers, and trust me, if I had to wait 5 months, I would have been fired, and they would have been also.
For your customers, there is little else they can do than wait (and complain), or most likely buy another software package, like I did. Now Adobe should really hope that the other software packaged are not really good, otherwise they will not be returning customers.

I wish you all the best in getting the AVCHD support sorted, and let us both hope it will not take too long. (Any news??)

Best regards
Frans

[DR - Frans and all, Thanks for your continued comments. I truly appreciate your support, comments and commitment to Adobe in taking the time to write. And no, I'm not buttering your bread or just saying that - I really do...

It's been several months since the original post and this particular entry still gets a lot of reads every day (perhaps because it comes to the top of a "Adobe AVC" search on Google... ;-) This is indicative of how important it is to people.

However, that being said, I have no real update at this time other than to let you know that it is one of the top issues that we're working on. Really working on...hard...very hard...

While this won't placate you in any way, let me just say that if Adobe could wave a magic wand and make this format appear, it would, but it is not that easy. Consider that we rolled out Panasonic P2 support several months after shipping Production Premium. We were getting yelled at to support that too. Plus, we have RED camera guys that want us to support them. We have Sony XDCamEX guys that want us to support them. While you're at it, throw in XDCamHD and SD as well. The list goes on - imagine all of you multiplied by all of the current formats out there... ahh!!!

These aren't excuses, far from it, but I am taking the time again to help you understand whats involved and that Adobe is constantly evaluating many customer segments at once and making choices. Let me be clear as well - AVC HD is VERY important to us.

With AVC HD, part of our process is understanding the best workflow to make this a pleasurable and effective experience. With Long GOP codecs, the process can be difficult as we found out with MPEG2. AVC HD is very hard to decode, edit and playback with effects in real-time unless you have a top-of-the-line system. This is part of what we're working on right now.

So, after all of this, perhaps the above is an update after all. I hope that you guys/gals know we 'get it' and we'll 'get it' to you as soon as possible. Thanks.

Dennis]

It has been 2 years since Sony released its first AVCHD Camera.

It has been close to a year since most of the major compeitors to adobe have had full support for AVCHD.

Adobe's lack of support for this codec is ridiculous, and if they make it a CS4 feature instead of a CS3 update it will be the last straw for many customers here.

This codec has been around since 2006 and still no news from Adobe, not even a release date.

Why because Adobe has no plans to support it. My advice to anyone looking to work with AVCHD footage is to forget about looking at adobe as an option for their editing software purchase and use one of the several programs out there that already fully support it.

You guys are as big as apple and canonical and if they can push out a new version of OSX or Ubuntu every year and set release dates 12months in advance of their actual release then there is no reason why adobe cant. Unless of course adobe have no plans of ever supporting this codec, which is in this case highly likely.

I got to give it to adobe though, they have a lot of nerve trying to knowingly suck in new customers who will never be supported by their software. Its a hell of a nice way to boost profits though.

Dennis might be able to prove me wrong by posting a release date, but I doubt this will ever happen.

[DR - David, I'm pushing this up on the website because I believe that our customers should have a voice. That being said, I thought twice about publishing this. Here's some thoughts:

1) You're making suppositions that are not factual. You're expressing your opinion as fact. while I respect your opinion you should state it as such.
2) the length of this thread itself should be a testament to my personal commitment to communicating to everyone. It should also speak to Adobe's commitment to supporting codecs in general. Please read all of my detailed responses before you post again - I've outlined several things in my responses.
3) We're not as big as Apple or Canon from a market valuation, but I appreciate the compliment. However, I get your point: the fact is that we are a big software company. Because we're big doesn't necessarily mean we have unlimited resources. It makes me paraphrase the Orsen Welles line when he was reduced to selling Gallo wine, "How do you think we got so big?" The answer my friend is that we try to make as many smart decisions as possible.

We're not perfect as you will quickly point out, but we care about our customers, otherwise we wouldn't be here.

'nuff said...

PS - love your email address - really!]

I'm just starting out in editing and from my research found that Premiere Pro was the NLE of choice for me. Then I learned that it didn't support AVCHD in which my camcorder records. Reading this thread makes me realize that maybe I won't be able to use Premiere and will have to go elsewhere. But I'll download a trial version of Vegas Pro and see if Adobe makes AVCHD a compatible CODEC.

For some time I was able to use NERO 7.0's Premiere Pro Plug-in of NeroDigital to encode AVC HD then burn a DVD 9 with NERO to get up to one hour HD. The new NERO 8.0 does not work the same way. Do you, or other contributers, have a simple work around? Of course I am talking about using a 1080i preset and not working in the AVC HD native format.

Why doesn't everyone just use Sony Vegas Pro? It is great and supports AVCHD and costs less.

I work at a software company that has a total of 300 people. I don't care what you say but if AVCHD is such a huge priority should it not have a estimated release date? Come on be real with us.

I know exactly when ADOBE will support AVCHD. It will be the same day CS4 is released.

I got tired of waiting and moved to Sony Vegas and I am glad I did. I have been following this thread since it started and had to voice my opinion.

Go buy Sony Vegas. Also, I do not work for Sony. I use a Canon HG10 for recording and Vegas to edit.

Please don't give me a reason to move from Photoshop to GIMP.

Just be honest and open that's all we want.

Alrighty, I bought 2 Sony HDR SR1's January 2006. I found after i bought them that AVCHD wouldn't be something I could edit with Pro 2.0. but I knew that CS3 was coming soon and there was a lot of talk about it being supported. It seemed logical that Adobe would support and crazy if they didn't, which they didn't so this has gotten crazy. I want to know, is there going to be a free fix for this ever????? Or are more and more people going to have give up on Adobe?

Well I've just read through the blog and I do appreciate DRs dedication to keep us informed in what is an obvious stretch of his legal obligation to keep lips sealed.

While I can conclude that you are indeed working on this issue now and urgently can you either confirm or deny that this will be a CS3 update?

When it boils down to it, that is what matters to me as I too have hastily purchased cs3. If you can't say either way, then please just let us know that.

It will be very disappointing if a CS3 update is not planned. However, with the latest release of AVCHD cameras (including my brand new Sony SR12 which supports full 1920x1080) I can't see why this would not be profitable to maximise Adobe's market by including a CS3 update to extend its life before the next major x.0 upgrade.

Thanks for your time DR, while frustrating as it is, (and woah - yes it is :) lots of us appreciate your efforts in bringing us what you can in a such a confidential area as software development.

For the rest of you understand that software companies can't release info until they know what they are going to do and how it will work. If they are only working it out, it will be some time away...

p.s the plugin link up top no longer works.

[DR - Dan thanks for your understanding and comments. Trust me as frustrating as it is for you, it is ten times more for me since I have to take the heat as part of my commitment to maintaining this blog and the customer's voices.

To your important question...Simply put, I can't comment on whether it is a CS3 update or a part of a future release. I wish it were otherwise, but that's the facts.

Lastly, I am trying (glutton for punishment that I am) to put together another post that outlines all of the working solutions with Adobe and AVCHD. I hope to put it up before NAB, but my schedule has been crazy.

Thanks again.]

Hi,

i´m really dissapointed! I bought the master collection cs month ago. More and More Cams use the AVCHD format and adobe says they are working for month to get it fixed...hmmm i don´t believe this any more and that´s a shame! i won´t by the update to cs4 to get the AVCHD support! and this is what a lot of people think here. i think adobe will loose many users on this and why the hell is nobody really working on this?? there is no status, no timeline, no release date...nothing! i think it will be implemented in cs4 and not a free update for cs3. then i´m going to sell my adobe stuff and turn to FC Pro...It can´t be so hard to get this working...the other companys can do that to!

I, like several on this forum, have been a long time user of Photoshop & Premier; recently purchased a Sony SR12 AVCHD HandyCam..and love it..then I discovered no non-linear editing capabilities for the AVC format..tried the Main Concept plug-in..too slow for real-time previews and I have a high-end system; gave Vegas a quick look but just don't want to learn another video editing program; so now my hopes are with Adobe..I'm sure I'll have to pay another $299 for a CS4 upgrade but I guess I don't have another choice..
I hope its soon but would rather wait for something that isn't slow & kludgy and doesn't work woth dual-core processors..

[DR - I agree that I would rather have a solution that works right than something that says 'yes I have AVCHD, and under delivers. Thanks for the comment.]

Well, first, sorry for the long post. I'm a prosumer user and find a lot of comfort in knowing I'm not alone in my disatisfaction with adobe as a company. For my 9-5 job, I work in a very large corporate environment (not unlike Adobe). I have some serious problems with DR's answers from Adobe. If what he is saying is true, then only two things are possible.

[DR - no prob with the long post - you took the time to write it, so I'll try to answer some of statements.]

#1: senior management is incompetent and doomed to suffer a "re-org." following the loss in marketshare from these poor decisions. (You corporate types know what I mean.) Your pride in NOT being "first to market" with the AVCHD format support is purely defensive. If you had the technology and foresight, you would have been marketing the pants off of it. It would be plastered all over your spec sheet. There are now several major manufacturers that record in AVCHD format (not just Sony anymore).

[DR - I actually like our senior management team a lot and to be honest re-orgs happen regardless of competency or not! ;-) I stand by my statement about not being first to market as a potential plus as evidenced by two recent examples I've already mentioned: tapeless workflows (P2) and multi-camera editing. A current problem with AVCHD is that it is VERY difficult to edit for the same reasons that MPEG2 was - temporal based codecs. As for multiple AVCHD types, you're right and my understanding (perhaps incorrect!) is that there are nuances in how they implement it. Think of HDV and MXF as two other examples where companies but heads...PS - I'm definitely NOT a corporate type, though I wouldn't mind their pay scale!]

This thread is now over 4 months old and there is STILL no solution. You can visit any local electronics retailer today and this is your best option. Sure, Adobe doesn’t necessarily cater to the consumer market, but today, that is a suicidal coporate/marketing decision. You will easily have over twice the number of consumer users in the market than pro with current pricing trends on the technology. I could quite easily walk in to my local retailer, buy the best HD camera off the shelf, which will coincidentally record in AVCHD currently, then walk two aisles over and put my hands on a software solution to edit it. Checkout, take them home and all will work fine. Adobe is nowhere in this scenario and should be ashamed of themselves. I have decided to wait on my premiere upgrade and now I’m quite sure that there is no point. I can start editing footage tonight with software off the shelf from a different company. Granted I won’t have all the features and power of Premiere, but I will be able to work and be productive.

[DR - granted the thread is 4 months old, but engineering doesn't happen when we'd like it to. As a guy who has been tied to product management for over 10 years, I can tell you that I'm disappointed 9 times out of 10 with my requests. 4 months may sound like an extravagantly long time, but the reality is that it isn't. ]

#2: SDK. hogwash. That is a total cop-out. Regarding lack of resources, again I call hogwash. Any company as large as Adobe, that has the capital to acquire other companies like flash/dreamweaver can easily throw the equivalent of pocket change at R&D to develop the software support plugin. While it is a nice gesture, to wear it as a shield is insulting to the customer base. You can spin it all you want, but what the customer base HEARS is: "we do not see the value in providing the solution to YOUR problem." Or, "we are too lazy to develop the solution and recommend that you
a) buy our software,
b) buy the upgrades and then
c) go buy a third party solution for what has become a "common" standard.
Adobe has a responsibility to provide support for formats considered mainstream. SDK is best used to answer fringe issues or niche markets. AVCHD is clearly NOT a niche standard anymore.

[DR - Well Mark, I guess we have to agree to disagree - I believe in the value of a SDK and a 3rd party community, it's obvious that you don't. 'nuff said. ]

Now don’t get me wrong. I’m no screaming fan of the AVCHD format. I hardly know anything about it. My argument is a matter of principle. If this is becoming mainstream, Adobe has a self-preserving interest to include support for it. On a personal note, I've always found other products to be easier to use in some aspects like capture, but have learned to use Premiere for it’s powerful editing features. I love it and would love to take it with me on my journey into HD but it appears that Adobe is going to oversleep and miss the boat altogether.

Speaking of arrogance and not to force you to be defensive, but just to echo the "voice of the customer", this is now the second recent experience I've had with Adobe where I'm left feeling like I'm not valued as a customer. My first experience has been with upgrade cost. I called to inquire about upgrading from Pro 1.5 to 2.0/CS3. I was amazed to hear (and very "matter-of-factly") that the upgrade cost is the same for me (who keeps up with the upgrades) as it is for the person who hasn't stayed current and is many, many versions old. You could have a version 5 premiere and upgrade to CS3 for the same cost as me who already spent considerable more money keeping current. I think this too is a foolish move for Adobe and the way the sales dept. handled me only re-assures my thinking.

[DR - If you were a customer who skipped a version as you may be now ;-), you would view our upgrade policy differently. Our position is that we do not want to penalize customers for missing a version. They have invested in us and consequently we want to give them an easy way to remain with Adobe products. The glass is half full for me, my friend.]

I hope for Adobe’s sake they get re-energized about the value of their customers or there will surely be far fewer of them to worry about. There are far too many other products available that will answer our needs. Sorry again for the rant.

Mark

[DR - Mark, thanks again. I hear and sympathize with your frustration. Trust me, I'm taking these comments back to product management and we're not sitting idly by letting our customers get upset. However, I do not have an answer that everyone wants right now, so consequently, I do what I can by answering here. Trust me, Adobe cares about our customers and we ARE energized and can only hope to become even more so as we hear about what we can and should be doing to support you. Thanks for your comments.]

Dennis,
Let me start by saying I applaud you for a taking so many forms of heat and using different (not canned) responses for each person's question(s).

Yes, I believe Adobe will eventually support AVCHD, but as a smalltime studio who just took the plunge on an HDR-SR12, I'm beginning to feel like I've made a mistake in my purchase.

[DR - I've just heard that we've made a little progress with Sony about getting that specific camera into my hands at some point! And now we return to our regularly scheduled comments...]

My question is a simple one. I realize you can't give release dates, and maybe this is that type of question from a different angle, but...

Can you AT LEAST tell us whether this will be a free update to current CS2/3 users, or will we have to upgrade?

[Marc, I don't know - I really don't. We've recently added Panasonic's P2 support absolutely free of charge and that was huge, but I can't say if we'll absolutely do the same for all codecs. In some cases, it is a licensing issue.]

I can stand not having AVCHD support (but I realize others can't) for now, but would want to know I don't have shell out a few more bills to get that support.

Thanks, and keep up the responses. It's not very often we get questions answered in this fashion.

-Marc

[DR - thanks for the comments, I'll keep trying hard for both Adobe and my customers.]

Although I appreciate that you have to be tight-lipped about future updates and releases of Adobe's software, my growing concern for future work-flow is more important to me. AVCHD is the direction one of my new clientele wants to go, for the sake of ease of use and end user, Flash Media makes so much more sense than HDV or other Tape based formats. It is the ultimate reusability.

[DR - agreed, which is why we invested so much time in developing a best-of-class tapeless workflow. At this time though, it is just for Panasonic P2.]

It would seems as though you have been leading us to believe Adobe will announce something in conjunction with NAB. Hopefully that is the case, but I have already lost potential income waiting for the right fix to come along. Now I agree that I would rather have just that, the "right" fix, rather than a band aid, hodge podge version.

[DR - I am not leading you to believe anything about NAB or otherwise. I am trying to address comments in a fairly timely manner for the better understanding of our customers.

One note in this long stream of comments -t here are some workarounds right now including Panasonics utility to convert AVCHD to P2. Granted it is NOT a perfect solution, but hey, that's why they call it a workaround! BTW - I'm NOT being flippant, just trying to put some humor in a humorless thread.]

I do think it is fair for Adobe Premiere Pro users to criticize Adobe. It isn't that we mind Adobe could possibly be behind other competitors. It is that they are leading us on without adequate information. Just tell us, point black, we are working on it, and a planned date, or expected date. That and how much if anything it will cost current CS3 owners.

[DR - I never said otherwise about our customers stating their opinions. As for information, I am not in a position to comment as clearly as I would like - simple as that.]

We shell out a lot of money for what we believe to be a superior solution, we deserve to have a little insider information. Without us, Adobe Premiere Pro is nothing.

[DR - thanks for your comments.]

Firstly, thanks for providing this page. It’s saved us a great deal of time in looking for a solution and understanding why we can open the format with adobe products.
We wanted to add some video testimonials to our website so got a Sony Handycam hoping to use it with the CS3 software. We’re using Vegas Movie Studio at the moment but eagerly awaiting adobe to support the format. We only use the Vegas software to convert the movies into a suitable format and then use the adobe software. The results we are getting into Flash and onto the web are fine for our needs but it will be much easier when the format is supported. Looking forward to seeing it soon.
It’s nice to see so many comments from DR, many would have lost their patience by now! Keep up the good work.

[DR - Thanks for the kind words - it helps keep me commenting on a prickly issue!]

I've been using Adobe Premiere for editing videos since version 5.5 through CS3, and I've always found its features the most complete and best organized. Now I'm planning to buy a AVCHD camcorder, and hope you'll have the support for the format soon. I understand it takes time and effort to provide a high-quality solution, but please give it a priority - as you see in this thread, it is important to many users of your software!

[DR - This much I CAN tell you - It's a TOP priority! Thanks for your comments.]

I've had an AVCHD camcorder for over 15 months now. Every month or so I keep coming back to Adobe to see if/when support for the format may be coming. That's a long, long time to be waiting.

While I continue to keep waiting, I still see the same vague comments I saw all those months ago: "No stated position, we're working on it, it takes a long time, development resources". Adobe expressed support for the AVCHD format back in July 2006. Pfft.

Has anybody tried the Main Concept AVCHD-to-P2 transcoder (distributed free for use with Panasonic products) with files from the Canon HF10?
As many others, I am looking for a way to edit AVCHD with Premiere.

[DR - I've posted a comment on this before I think. It is a viable workaround and one that is absolutely free. The only downside is larger file sizes. ]

I thought Adobe Premiere was the best solution for video editing until we bought it and realized there was no AVCHD support. This led us to research other products and buy something else, but Adobe should have already known this would happen.

Having just purchased a Canon HG10, my need for AVCHD support in PP CS3 has shot up. I'd also like to see support for it in After Effects CS3 as well! Is there an email notification list I can get on to be notified when the support arrives (any day now)??

[DR - As of right now Dan, I don't know of anything specific for Adobe Premiere Pro or After Effects. However, any major new features are going to get their press from Adobe and elsewhere, so I would recommend that you get signed up on Adobe's general email list. It sends out a monthly (we try not to spam you) list with a bunch of news and resources.]

You all know AVCHD support won't be in CS3. You will need to purchase CS4.

This issue is way too big to generate this little information. That in itself provides the obvious answer; AVCHD support will be used to drive sales of CS4. Of course DR is not allowed to trump the Press Release / kickoff announcement soon to come. I commend him for holding his finger in the dike for so long. As for a free CS3 upgrade? 'nuff said.

I've just started looking at buying a new camera and thus have been reading up on AVCHD which led me to this thread.

What a different world the Premiere side of Adobe is from the Coldfusion/Flash/Flex world that I normally work in. Those Adobe products are increasingly more open about what's coming in future versions. By now everyone knows many of the main features coming in Flash CS4, the Flex Framework is open source and Coldfusion actively involves it's community in future development. By comparison reading Adobe's stance on something that when it's ready should be a free upgrade for Premiere is a rather old school experience. This is the Adobe I knew before Macromedia's community driven teams became part o the company. I was hoping this would have filtered over into other aspects of Adobe, but apparently not.

This is a major thing that based on the comments in this thread has burned a lot of loyal Adobe customers. To not be transparent about what the Premiere team is working on and to not at least hint at release time frames is just not appropriate in this day and age.

Go talk to the product management teams for all the former MM products, the rest of Adobe still has a lot to learn from them.

[DR - Unfortunately, I've got to head out today and behind on my comments, but in an effort to keep up, I'm responding rather briefly today...

I would respectfully disagree with your assessment. We published Premiere Pro and After Effects CS3 as public betas on Mac and PC the last time around and with NAB around the corner you might see something like it coming. P2 support is something we absolutely could have charged for but we didn't - it was completely free and I would expect more of the same to come from us in the future.

While I am sometimes constrained in what can be said, I try to be as straightforward as I can and will continue to do so as I represent the company.

To briefly speak on Adobe and Macromedia's cultures - they are coming together and both have learned a great deal from the others. To close, I will say that the public betas I alluded to earlier were a direct result of Macromedia's prior policy.]

Hi Dennis

Thanks for your patience and civility on what is certainly a hot topic - I am sure Adobe will bring focus to this increasing amount of feedback, but (as you can see) we feel very strongly that to retain customer satisfaction/loyalty (and no doubt future upgrade business) that Adobe hopefully address this as a free update for CS3 - the investment for some of us to get this far has not been inconsiderable..

Having just purchased a Sony HDR-SR12E (fantastic product), I finally found this thread - unfortunately the Panasonic Transcoder does not work for me (at least at 1920x1080) - has anyone else had any success?

Nero 8 when saving via Nero Vision either limits codec resolution to DV (for example .avi), or if you use MPEG-2, although it supports 1920x1080i, the conversion is poor, and it also seems to break the file up into segments and then drop frames between them. Again if anyone has had any success here, please let me know?

I have also received Pinnacle 11 as a birthday gift but have held off on installing it on my PC with Adobe CS3 Master Collection - it feels a bit embarassing to be turning to this, but i'm concerned that having two video editors may cause potential conflict based upon previous experience - does anyone else use Pinnacle 11 for AVCHD?

Kind regards

Rod Davies (UK)

[DR - Rod, thanks for your comments. I actually worked for Pinnacle for many years and keep bumping into friends who have moved on to other companies.

The transcoder software should be working for you - what's not working? Perhaps it is the classic Sony vs. Panasonic? that's something I haven't played around with...

PS - I hope to make my first visit to the UK later this summer!]

When will Premiere be compatible with Sony's XDCAM EX PWM-EX1? I've been using premiere with Sony HVR-Z1E but when I wanted to upgrade to disc-recording i found out that Premiere has let me down... Can anyone give me a releasedate?

[DR - aye carumba! Let's throw on the RED Camera, AVC Intra and a few other formats... hit me when I'm down! ;-)

All kidding aside, I do know something about this - see, there I've said it! BUT, I can't say anything. This answer is perhaps even worse, but I will hang on to my integrity and tell you information as soon as I can!

And before I get bombed again on the AVCHD front the answer is, "I don't know!"

Your editor in arms: weary, beaten, bloody and tempted to close this thread, but still going with a smile...
DR]

I have been using adobe premiere products for many years, but as a medical professional, I cannot understand Adobe's lack of foresight and resource allocation to the AVCHD format. If we, as doctors, acted on the outbreaks of disease in the same fashion as your company, pandemics would be rampant across the globe. Adobe's lack of action is deplorable and I agree it is likely only a marketing drive for future CS4 sales. Sorry to say, but after having been burned for so long with the lack of AVCHD support, I am forever leaving what used to be a fine company and moving onto other more progressive companies like Adobe used to be. You and your execs really missed the boat on this one at what I believe the expense will be the loss of thousands of former customers.

[DR - Dear doctor, aren't you being a little melodramatic by comparing pandemics with software development?

Truth be told, customers were saying the same thing about Panasonic P2/MXF until we delivered a GREAT solution that is better than the competition. Then it wasn't a big deal.

One other thing that I may not have mentioned thus far is that customer demand drives our development and P2 far outstripped AVCHD when it came down the pike. That's not to diminish anything or the problem we currently face, but it serves to illustrate that we're listening to customers and responding - P2 and other features just came ahead of AVCHD. We'll look to rectify that as soon as possible.

As I've said in other replies, I would rather deliver a solution a little later and it be superior than rush something to market just to say we have it. In the end, customers will be happier.

To close with the same analogy, wouldn't you rather have the right medicine than guess which one will work? Thanks for your comments - I do appreciate them.]

Hello,

I really like the atmosphere of this long list of comments! I've been tracking this page for months now, since it seems to be the only place on the web to get a little insight on Adobe and AVCHD! I'm really surprised that Adobe do not officially communicate on this topic, but anyway, I used other products to "try" and edit my own rushes, and I can tell (to emphasize your last comment) I'll definitively go back to Premiere as soon as it manages AVCHD.
Thanks for giving us some hope!

[DR - see guys, I'm not making it all up! ;-) thanks for the comment Emmanuel.]

I'm a casual user who just bought an AVCHD format camcorder. I have Premiere and figured it would naturally work with my new camera. I was surprised, much like the others in this thread, to find that Adobe doesn't have an update for it. Then I went looking for why and came upon this site. What a shock. The original article was posted on November 19, 2007 and now almost 5 months later there is no more valuable information on the support for this format as there was in November. Instead, the replies to customer pleas and complaints is a lighthearted but repetitive message: We don't have any idea as to when or how we'll provide support. But we're working on it.

It is amazing that a software company hasn't even disclosed even a general timeline for support or given any insight into what stage of development they are at in supporting this format. You have heard of project and release management?

In the end, I really don't care when or if Adobe provides the support because what came with the camera is sufficient for me. What is surprising to me is how gullible Adobe must think their customers to be to keep telling them the same thing for 5 months without official insight.

[DR - Eric, oi vei...

I can't talk about general time lines because project and release management can be a fluid thing as you should know since you purport to know these things. The fact that I say we're working on it should give our customers confidence that Adobe understands their needs. It is certainly better than nothing at all. Also, letting people express their comments (like yours) is an acknowledgment as opposed to sticking our heads in the sand.

Ultimately, I want an informed customer who is aware of the issues and I will tell you plainly that Adobe respects our customers in the highest sense as has been demonstrated throughout our 25 year history and we will continue to do so. Without the respect and support of our customers, we're out of business plain and simple.

Granted, I don't have AVC HD support in the time frame you want (me either for that matter), but to categorically say Adobe doesn't respect their customers or isn't listening or is...whatever you're trying to say...is a gross generalization and exaggeration.]

Add us to the list of those waiting for XDCam EX support.
Now Sony has announced the PMW- EX3, the SECOND generation of this camera, and still Adobe has no support for the format.
Admitedly, we've been forced to use Sony Vegas, as the 3rd party 'solutions' from the two major 3rd party vendors, are unstable, buggy, and outragiously-expensive. One of these breaks the workflow and well, we may as well be shooting on tape again with that alternative workflow. The other offers a lot of baggage that we already own licenses for, so it's 3/5ths wasted money for duplicate features.

Since the new cams from Sony are so good, we're considering a move to the Mac platform and Final Cut Pro. In fact, we're supposed to have a meeting about it later this month.

That would be a shame, as we've been staunch supporters of Adobe Premiere since 2001.

I do hope Adobe corrects this very soon!

[DR - Thanks for your comments Mark. I've been impressed with what I've seen on XDCAM EX so far, but I'm no expert. XDCAM is based on the MXF platform and NAB starts tomorrow, so maybe you'll see something.]

This is truly amazing. Adobe is truly leading the game with RAW images and PShop's converter, but with a leading format like AVCHD (my Canon HG10) you're not there yet, and I have to weasel information about this widespread format out of Adobe through a single forum thread? FWIW, Ulead 11.5 seems to work fine and gives me basic-level AVCHD editing and output functions, so that's were I just put my money. Really hope Adobe can get going on this ASAP.

Ok, I've noticed comments since the start of NAB have slowed dramatically - this is somewhat ominous. I just got a second hand report from a friend of mine at the show who walked to the Adobe booth and asked about AVCHD support. He said their response was:

"AVCHD is a consumer format which cannot really be used in serious production TV or film. Adobe only plans to support this in their consumer products."

[DR - Dan, this is an easy one for me. AVC HD will be in Premiere Pro and not just our consumer products. See, no fear. ;-)]

Hi Dennis

Please forgive my cheekiness, but fortune (sometimes) favours the brave.

If/when Adobe support ACV HD for CS3, please let me know if you need a beta tester? >9o)

Kind regards

Rod Davies (UK)

P.S. Last year I was given a quick tour / intro at Adobe Amsterdam when I was visiting my vendor (Stream) in the same building - are you based there?

[DR - Rod, I am based in the US and simply wishing I had a chance to do a small amount of international travel. I believe I will have a chance to visit England before too long. As far as being a beta tester, I will look into how you might apply. I will send you an email.]

Great to see Sony XDCAM support popping up as an update!

How would a Canon HF10 owner take advantage of this?

[DR - Again, it since it is an AVC HD camera (or is it AVCHD {no space]) there are options, but nothing that is native with Premiere Pro at the moment. You can try downloading Panasonic's AVCHD to P2 transcoder software as one possible free option. The other that I like is buying a Blackmagic Design Intensity card and feeding the HDMI from the camera to the card. You can capture using BMDs jpeg codec I think and have a reasonable solution there as well. With the BMD option, you negate the editing of long GOP MPEG. Hope this helps and thanks for the comment.]

Just got a Canon HF10 a few weeks ago (not as flexible as my Panasonic DVX100, but does a pretty good job for a tiny, tiny camera). Naturally, ran into the AVCHD problem with PP CS3. Tried a few low cost solutions, and have settled on Shedworx Voltaic utility ($30) to handle transcoding. Unfortunately, getting things from AVCHD to WMV is slow, slow, slow -- about 18 seconds of processing on a relatively modern machine for 1 second of output. Hopefully when Adobe gets its act in order and implements AVCHD on PP, we won't see a bit performance hit (otherwise, transcoding really will be the only viable option for folks who don't have high-end hardware).

more and more prosumer avchd camcorders come on the market and adobe still has no information about when avchd is implemented in cs3? wow i mean i use adobe product over serveral years but thats a complete mess! and there is no official statement of adobe?? that can´t be true! as written herer more and more adobe users are afraid is it implementet only in cs4 and if so i think adobe will loose many prosumer costomers and me too! it can´t be so hard and you say you are "working on it" for over 4 month??? come on to be honest if some people are working hard for nearly half a year on this and there is no feedback at all... adobe is annoying its costomers thats for shure. and there will be more and more avchd comcorders out the next month (canon hf10/100, samsung SC-HMX20C etc...). and i´m a mac user so mainconcept has no mac plugin for me too! tell me how i should work with the avchd files on a mac? i don´t understand adobe here at all... for me it looks like they want to hold it back for cs4 and nothing else and thats a shame because i spent thousands of dollars on your products and now i get really poor support. so if it´s not in cs3 will sell my PP CS3 and go for another editing programm thats for shure.

[DR - Stephan, we have publicly stated that we will support AVC HD. The bit about Main Concept is true, though there are work arounds there as well which I'm checking to see if I can officially publish. Therein lies part of the problem - we need a solution that is cross platform. If we wanted to support our PC customers only, we could simply license Main Concept or others. however, we are committed to both platforms and all customers, so with that comes additional choices.

If AVC HD ends up in CS4, it is not because we're holding back, plain and simple. It is one of timing and execution. There are many priorities and they are mapped against engineering efforts. Some are harder than others. Some require dependencies on other companies, etc. etc. ad nauseum.

Thank you for your comments and I hope that this provides some clarity to our desire to satisfy all of our customers including you. Cheers, DR]

How about when can we register for alph or beta
particapation>

[DR - I put an idea to the Premiere team, and waiting to hear back. You can request features for Premiere Pro by emailing premierewishlist[removeme]@adobe.com]

Just for a moment lets forget about where AVC HD or even whether AVC HD, can you give any indication of
when for CS4?
Gerald

[DR - Not if I value my job.

Since Adobe is a publicly traded company, disclosure of such information is never discussed, so sadly I will never discuss such information. Thanks for your comment.]

I recently purchased the Sony SR-11. I think AVCHD will only become more popular with time in the consumer market.

I am a long time Adobe User, but I am thinking about Vegas Pro, but have held out because I am familiar with Adobe, and Pro supposedly takes a lot of time to learn.

I am hesistant to install and use Pinnacle Studio 11.

I guess like others, just waiting for CS4 to catch up with my camera.

have (had) the same problem here! tried to use cs3 with avchd for month but adobe gives a s..t! i can´t wait for the next 5 month or for cs4 what will cost me a lot of money just for avchd because i was happy with cs3 and i do not need anything else. changed to pinacle studio and ... what can i say, it works perfect. by by adobe! i think adobe lost many customers and will loose even more prosumers in the next month if they a) don´t implement avchd in cs3 or b) just implement it in cs4. i can´t understand adobe here! hey you can´t tell people it is important for adobe and "we are working on it" an this for 5 or more month! other companies can do that i 1-2 month! by by adobe!

Yes, I've used Adobe Premiere for a long long time In this particular issue the arrogance of the company towards it's customers is 100 per cent. unacceptable.

Today, my business went and spend a lot of money buying Apple hardware along with 3 copies of FCP. When working with clients I need to feel I can trust the companies that I buy software from. From all angles Adobe have really misunderstood its customer base and Apple appear to be focussed like a leopard stalking it's prey.

Goodbye Adobe, hope your shareholders and management find some better teams to deliver what the rest of the world has done in a very short space of time.

D

[DR - Hi David, thanks for the comment. I would respectfully disagree with your assessment that Adobe is arrogant in its attitude towards customers. If this were truly so, I would have cut off accepting comments on this thread about 5 months ago. However, we care enough to take the bad with the good and so thus this response.

The truth is that we passionately care about our customers and try to keep you/them pleased at every turn. The reality is that we haven't in the case of AVC HD.

While I'm disappointed that you've chosen to move to Final Cut for your editing, I understand that they provide an answer that you need now. Fortunately, Adobe is most likely still a part of your overall work with products like After Effects and Photoshop. Production Premium is unique in that it's not a question of either Adobe or Apple, but hopefully Adobe or Apple+Adobe.

As for the implication that we are not innovating like Apple, I would point out Dynamic Link as one example of unique solutions that the competition doesn't or can't do. What about client review? Clip Notes.

What about DVC Pro HD or XD Cam EX? With Apple, both of these are rewrapped or transcoded to be conformed to QuickTime. Not so in Adobe Premiere Pro - it's native MXF with no metadata stripped.

While the above may mean nothing to your business and I can understand that, it hopefully makes it clear that Adobe has and will continue to innovate to create solutions that are compelling to our customers. With any luck, we'll get the opportunity to win you back. Until then, Adobe and I will keep trying. ;-)

Thanks again for your comments. DR]

"I would respectfully disagree with your assessment that Adobe is arrogant in its attitude towards customers. If this were truly so, I would have cut off accepting comments on this thread about 5 months ago"... i just read adobe had decided not to implement avchd in cs3! ähhmmm i don´t know if this is true but it would fit right in... just think about the decission was made month ago and we are hoping here to get avchd support in cs3! this is just fooling your customers with this forum here! do you really think accepting comments is to care about your customers? it is absolutly not! i would prefer hard working on avchd in cs3! i think in a few weeks i will also work with FCP...this is no way to treat your long time customers sorry. no official statements nothing...even imovie supports avchd...so not adobe!

Hi,

Glad you keep adding to this page and keep responding! That's great!

I just want to add my voice to those who would very much like native AVC HD support in Premiere. I do video's (I have done nature, commercial concert DVD's, weddings for friends etc) all with Premiere. I like the product very much. I now have a Sony SR7 and a new Sony SR12. Because I want to continue to use Premiere, I currently have to convert to HDV (and lose a little quality in the process) or buy the above plugin. Please add native AVC HD support into Premiere. It would really simplify my life. Hopefully you guys are working on it.

Waiting with bated breath,

Jim

[DR - Jim, you, me and several others would all like the support! The idea of native support is one of the issues we are dealing with. Like HDV when it came out, some companies transcoded it in order to edit, whereas we prefer to edit natively whenever possible. with AVC HD, it is h.264 (or MPEG4 if you will) and as a result, it is very demanding for the CPU to do a decode. iMovie, FCP, and several others are all doing a transcode rather than edit it natively.

Thanks for your comments - I do appreciate them.]

As of today (april 2008) AVCHD is still not available on the latest CS3.

I was looking to buy the Adobe master collection but seing that i even can't use My Sony SR11 movie directly on premiere make me goes another route...

In no way i'm going to add a 500$ plugin over a supposed "professional" package that worth 2500$ !

Adobe you just loose a customer, i'm not the only one as i can see...

Pinnacle is very nice and support the AVCHD for less than 200$ btw!

Hi:

With the addition of the new SONY camera presets there is now a 1920X1080 preset. SInce I have been composing AVCHD discs using the Nero plug in with CS3 then using NERO to burn the DVD, I presume the use of the full 1080i preset will allow creation of the intermediate AVCHD files faster and with less CPU usage -- and with better clarity. Is that right?

The last DVD I burned from Premiere took 120 hours (double sided but about an hour long) but had three drop outs. ALl were when I moved the mouse to check how much longer. All had a drop out of the video but NO drop of the sound or the titles on track #2. Looks like Premiere is not interupt driven.

Any suggestions?

Barrie

[DR - Barrie, It must be me, but I'm not sure about exactly what you're using and your workflow. If you can describe it a bit more, I will try to comment on it. Thanks.]

just bought a canon hf100 and it is not supported by the newest premiere pro cs3? what a shame on adobe! we are using the hf100 for special recordings besides our canon pro cams. we do not change our setup now but i think we are looking to change the setup in the future to FCP. Finalcut is supporting AVCHD a long time and you folks are working on it for over half a year? thats not professional handling! sorry adobe but this is really poor support!

[DR - Hi Wolfgang, as I've mentioned in many other responses, it's not as if we're sitting on our thumbs. More importantly, we've been working on superior tapeless workflows that will ultimately benefit users of AVCHD. Right now, we have superior workflows for DVC Pro HD and XDCAM HD and EX.

Final Cut and others do support AVCHD today whereas we do not, but I will mention that they convert the files before being able to edit them. This impacts the creative process. We certainly hope to be able to do better when we get it done. In addition, there are workarounds on several levels including a similar solution to what FCP does right now - transcode to a different format. You can download an AVCHD to HDV or DVCProHD converter and edit away.

While not ideal, it does represent the same basic idea of what many other companies are doing today when dealing with AVCHD solutions.

Again, Adobe is committed to supporting as many codecs and formats as possible and we will continue to strive to win the support and satisfaction of our customers. For now, we have an uphill battle with AVC HD, but we hope that your patience will be rewarded.]

I have been using Adobe products for many years. Have bought a Panasonic AVCHD camera and your forcing me to go and learn new packages when I want to spend my money with you....come on give a commitment to some loyal customers here.

[DR - John, you have our commitment. The question is one of when, to which some are unsatisfied. As mentioned before, you can use Panasonic's free AVCHD to DVCProHD software and edit with Premiere Pro.]

DR - I'm in the same boat as most of these other folks, but I gotta say I feel for you. Good on Adobe that they have someone like you out here taking the heat and answering the tough questions.

[Chris - thanks, I really do appreciate it and glad that some people understand the intent here.]

Adobe, you disgust me. I purchased Adobe Master Collection as soon as it came out, spending heaps for a student on a limited budget. Now I find it won't work with AVCHD, a mainstream format where as Apple and Ulead do support it. Your tech support staff told me to swap to Apple. No kidding, another $1200 down the drain. My gosh, Photoshop works great but you guys have to clean up your act. Customer loyalty isn't free, we expect respect.

[DR - We do respect you in a variety of ways. One would be your student license which is less than half of a normal license. The second is a variety of updates that are free and add new codecs and workflows such as DVCProHD and XDCAM EX. Those don't help you, but it does speak of our commitment to customers.]

While were are all waiting for native support in CS3, I took some time and documented my work flow with AVC-HD footage (24p 1920x1080):
http://www.google.com/notebook/public/11794499350958156719/BDSGpIgoQuq3kvpcj

The method uses free tools *) and is transcode-less for the final rendering. I use it with the Canon HF10 and Premiere Pro CS3, but a similar method might work for other cameras or Premiere releases.

*) free except for Morgan MJPEG V3, that is not absolutely needed.

[DR - Coert, well done and thanks for taking the time to publish it. I've talked about the AVCHD to DVCProHD transcode from Panasonic, but you've mentioned others as well. I keep meaning to write my follow up article on other methods, but I've always got something else that is interfering! Thanks again and hopefully this will help some users.]

hi thanks for the comments here! i have a big problem. i have a avchd camcorder and user PP CS3. As we know there is no way to get avchd in PP right now :-(. so i´m using a mac and i don´t know how to get these files in PP? the voitec tool just supports 1080i and not 1080p (24 and 30). can you please post a work around i can get the 1080p files with a mac into PP please which costs not hundred of dollars. otherwise i can´t use PP CS3. Thanks a lot Klaus

[DR - thanks for taking the time to write the comment. I disagree with your first statement. There are lots of ways to get AVCHD into Premiere Pro - just not straight with Adobe at present. Another user has posted his findings which I appreciate and I've mentioned several other products, including the original article of this blog thread which talked of MPEG Pro 3 from MainConcept. Mac users also have solutions. Check out the solutions available and if you have questions, post again. Good luck!]

I have to agree with the choir on this one...it's May, NAB has come and gone and still no word on AVCHD or H264?? I know you mentioned the timing was 'off' and I hate to beat a dead horse but the turn around on this one has been way too slow!

I too am a big Adobe supporter but am really frustrated by the poor format support. Since Vista's release, I'm considering Mac more seriously than ever and Final Cut is looking like a better option than Premiere. While they have to convert the files, at least I can get my projects done.

There are no smooth ways to get the AVCHD Files in PPCS3 for Mac users i think and thats a shame. Mainconcept is only supporting windows and not mac! Voltaic does not support progressive modes and all the other programms just run on a pc. can you please tell me a simple way to get my avchd 30p files in PP? (By the way you can´t be serious to say to the adobe users to go for the mainconcept plugin. its hundreds of dollars and i think before the PP users by this they would go for another compatible editing software like Vegas etc.). So can you