InDesign & Leopard: UPDATE III

More interesting news regarding failure to launch and unexpect shut down problems with InDesign on Leopard: the crash logs continue to indicate that it is pre-release versions of the software (which are not made legally available to the public, I should hasten to add) that are having these compatibility problems on Leopard, not the release versions of InDesign CS3 (versions 5.0 and 5.0.1).

This casts an interesting light on a comment like this, sent to this blog earlier today:

Two superpowers: Apple and Adobe, and they cannot make the InDesign working on Leo. I am very dissapointed, very :((

It’s usually very unfortunate when someone is dissappointed with us, but this is not one of those times. I think most users out there will regard it as rather obvious that Adobe feels no obligation whatsoever to make sure that pirated or otherwise (knowingly or unknowingly) illegally acquired and used pre-release software is updated to run on the latest operating systems (and I would strongly suspect that Apple has a similar attitude). One might go even further and say that even suggesting such a thing is very silly indeed.

So, if you’re experiencing these problems (and dissappointed, very :(( ), do check the build number of your software as explained in the prior post. The commercially available release versions of InDesign CS3 appear to be doing just fine with Leopard based on what we’re seeing in crash logs, bug reports, and feedback from both Adobe and Apple field reps and their customers.

That said, if you do have a legal version of CS3 (5.0 or 5.0.1) and have a problem, we are (as always) eager to hear from you via the crash log system and/or Adobe’s Feature Request and Bug Report page.

54 Responses to InDesign & Leopard: UPDATE III

  1. Randy Rowles says:

    I am glad to see that Adobe is looking for Bug reports. It would be nice to see what features of Acrobat, Flash and Dreamweaver are currenlty considered “Not Working/Supported” by Adobe instead of just the general information I have seen so far. Keep up the great work!

  2. Mike says:

    At last! Someone has the guts to put a whiner in his/her place!

    I’m fed up having to wade through piles of this sort of meritless complaint in forums – other ‘favorites’ include “I use Acrobat (pick any version over 6 years old) and was appalled to find that it does not work on my new Vista machine”

    We have virus and spam filters – can’t someone invent a ‘whine’ filter??

    [TC: Some whining is both understandable and justified. However, this particular example (and those like it on various forums around the net) is not, and neither is any other complaint from someone using a non-release version of InDesign.

    It’s not unlike the person who stole your car expressing indignance and outrage because you haven’t refilled the fuel tank for him.]

  3. Dennnis says:

    Just wondering why my Indesign CS won’t work with Leopard, had I known that I would not have purchased it because I am not a high tech user and only need to transfer pictures onto a sheet of paper for documentation of work performed. Why should I have to keep upgrading all my programs with new systems?

    [TC: To answer your question, InDesign CS was neither built nor tested with the Leopard OS in mind. Leopard was not available to developers at that time. It has always been customary to release compatible versions of the software when the operating system in question is actually made publicly available, and there isn’t enough time, resources, or market to justify going backward in time and trying to take older versions and update them as well.]

  4. Ben says:

    I am using a legal version of InDesign. I bought it at my university book store and I am looking at the box right now.

    There are two main bugs I am running into under Leopard:

    1. Whenever I re-link an image, InDesign crashes.

    2. I can’t Hide it. like if I go to Finder and do “Hide Others” everything goes away EXCEPT InDesign. Even if I go to “InDesign->Hide InDesign” it will not hide.

    [TC: #2 is a known issue with Leopard, and we’re currently working with Apple on it. #1 is something I haven’t heard of. Have you sent in crash logs and reported it on our website? We’d like to be able to help figure out why that’s happening to you.]

  5. Scott says:

    Mike,

    Maybe you should do a little research before undergoing a major system upgrade. Complaining that InDesign CS isn’t compatible with Leopard is just silly.

  6. Jason says:

    So can you explain to me why my wife’s new and fully legal copy of In Design CS3 won’t work on with Leopard on her MacBook Pro?

    [TC: With only the information that your new and legal copy of InDesign CS3 “won’t work,” I’m afraid the answer is “no.” ]

    No? The guys at the Apple store couldn’t either.

    [TC: Well, hopefully you gave them a bit more detail about the nature of the problem than what you gave me. ]

    So I guess your rumor is false.

    [TC: First, if by “rumor” you’re referring to the reports from Apple and Adobe field reps, that wouldn’t be accurate. They’re not rumors, they’re first hand reports of what’s happening on their own and their customer’s machines.

    That said, just because InDesign runs well on their machines doesn’t guarantee that it will do the same on yours, but it does mean that the problem probably isn’t the simply the fact that you’re running InDesign on Leopard.

    Second, have you tried contacting Adobe’s Technical Support group? They’re probably better able to actually help you with a technical problem than the staff at the Apple store. They’d also be happy to help you both verify that you’ve got the right build of InDesign, and then help you troubleshoot the problem. We’d also appreciate it if you’d send us crash logs (if you’re crashing), and report a problem on using our Feature Request/Bug Report form.

    We’d very much like to help get your wife’s InDesign up and running, because of course we understand how frustrating it is when you’re software won’t work. So, please contact our support team using one of the options here.]

  7. Scott S. says:

    I can attest that the complete, full, legal 5.01 InDesign CS3 can have some major issues with Leopard. I spent two or three days with it crashing on any open, save or export dialog (but you get about 2 seconds to hit return and cross your fingers it can save!). I’ve let all of the crash reports go through to Adobe (though I stopped annotating each one with the same notes).

    Significantly, though, I’ve been able to solve my problems (I believe). If you’ve seen similar problems, try this: delete your entire “InDesign 5.0” preferences folder. I saw a post on the Adobe boards suggesting that having ID ‘reset’ preferences by launching with Option (or some other key) held down, and I tried that and agreed to the reset. Crashing still occurred. Then, I simply moved that 5.0 preferences folder out of my ~/Library/Preferences/Adobe InDesign/ folder, and voila! ID is working (as well as it ever did) again! I had to re-set my preferences, but that’s a small price to pay for stability. I also stole my standard workspace out of the proscribed folder, and things still seem stable.

    Just my 2¢.

    [TC: Thanks for the 2¢, Scott. Any time you experience aberrant behavior, purging the Preferences data is a good first step to troubleshoot the problem.

    This is one of the reasons we’ve recommended clean installs as the safest way to migrate to Leopard. Fortunately, deleting one’s Preference data isn’t a difficult thing to do.]

  8. Francisco says:

    I’m not an Adobe Creative user, but several of my clients are. They ran from lone designers, groups of about five designer, and a big company (more than fifty designers). Mixtures of CS and CS2 running on Tiger. Since for many the move to Leopard means that they will have to invest in hardware (a lot of money in my country) the question is: are there problems between Leopard and CS or CS2? Are they insurmountable?

    [TC: Hello Francisco. CS3 is the only release that’s being built and tested to run on Leopard. I would expect that there would be problems running CS or CS2 on Leopard. They would be insurmountable in that we’re not going to be releasing patches for those versions to fix any problems that exist with Leopard. Anyone upgrading to Leopard will also need to upgrade to the CS3 release as well.]

  9. jean-paul says:

    “dissapointed”? Steal software and can’t even spell!

  10. Fabrice says:

    I am a bit confused with Adobe communication. The compatibility list clearly annonce that Indesign as well as Photoshop are Leopard ready otherwise I wouldn’t have made the upgrade so early.

    By the end of my first “Leopard” day I already had to report a serious bug in Photoshop CS3.

    I know Apple didn’t send the final release to developers in time. But the previous beta versions should have pointed out such bugs quite clearly, didn’t they ?

    [TC: Developer builds of an OS are always moving targets, and we usually don’t know what the release build is until it’s actually released. Our statements are based on our internal testing, but customers usually create use cases that we do not. If you encounter anything you think is a bug (whether it’s OS compatibility or something else), please report it on our website (as you apparently did).]

  11. Adam Hesketh says:

    I’ve been trying all morning to create a PDF from Indesign (CS2) after upgrading to Leopard, each time it crashes.
    I’ve spoken to Adobe UK and they say that there is not a patch in the near future to fix this and the only option is to upgrade to CS3.
    I am now going back to Tiger (10.4) and will take a serious look at Quark Xpress!!

    [TC: Sorry you’re having a problem, Adam, but CS2 isn’t going to be updated for Leopard. CS3 is the version on which Leopard is being supported.

    As per my response to an earlier comment, versions prior to CS3 weren’t engineered for Leopard compatibility, and making them compatible with Leopard would demand resources that simply aren’t available. Similarly, I doubt that Quark is going to support Leopard in versions prior to version 7.]

  12. Jim says:

    I have been using InDesign CS3 on Leopard for a week or so now, and I think it works great! I am waiting for the next point release from Apple to upgrade my whole department (6 designers and one part-time freelancer), and I have nothing but good things to say. (Any chance I’ll be able to link to a SQL database natively from InDesign anytime soon? 😉 Keep up the good work! Thanks.

    [TC: Jim, when you say “link to an SQL database natively” you mean what exactly? You mean from something like the links panel? You can’t do that from within ID right now with the standard product, but various third parties offer that capability via plug-ins. As for our plans, I am not allowed to either confirm or deny any such plans we might have for the standard product. I will say, however, that it’s a very good idea.]

  13. Designer says:

    It realy works BAD!!!!
    I am very disapointed. Indesign does not function within Leo, PDF’s are keeping crashing. Very bad ADOBE and APPLE.

    However I still have some patience to wait for your updates to be released.
    I have lost 3 days trying to install CS3 and Leo again and again, but without any results.

    [TC: Sorry to hear you’re having problems. When you say “PDF’s are keeping crashing” what exactly do you mean? Please verify your build number as described in a prior post on this blog, and then send us crash logs and contact Technical Support. The release version of InDesign functions well with Leopard. There’s a problem with Acrobat 8 and Leopard that causes a crash when printing to PDF rather than exporting PDF directly from InDesign. If that’s not your specific problem, then we need to hear from you. ]

  14. mike says:

    I’m confused. I came here after conducting a search on InDesign not being able to use the hide feature in the finder. Your only answer was that Adobe was aware of the problem and working on it. When can we expect the fix and how will we know it’s taken place?

    [TC: Mike, the reason for that answer is that it’s the most accurate one I can give you at the moment. We believe the problem is with Leopard, and as such it’s not our fix to deliver. We’ll pass on information on developments as we can.]

  15. Arle Lommel says:

    I wonder if anyone has an idea on this (possibly) Leopard-related problem. I was forced into upgrading to Leopard due to a system crash, and did a clean install of the OS and CS3, ran all updates, etc., etc. Since the upgrade, whenever I launch any CS3 apps I get a strange error message that appears to be partially in Polish:

    Nieoczakiwany b∏àd
    Error opening resource fork of Dict -35

    It has an OK button, and if I click on it, InDesign appears to load just fine. Any idea what this might mean? I’m not even sure it’s a Leopard problem, but it does seem to be related.

    Incidentally, my ability to export stories in “Text only” or “RTF” format seems to have also died (InDesign outputs blank files), as does copying and pasting text from InDesign into Word or a text editor. Again, maybe not related, but has anyone else encountered anything similar?

  16. Jason says:

    I’m also experiencing the problem with instability that seems to be linked to the Nav Svcs. Until today, we were running a fresh install of Leopard on a brand new Mac Pro, perfectly legal, purchased for this machine, copy of CS3 Design Premium. The problems are so frequent that it basically shut our artist down, since this is his only machine and he frequently loses all of his work when it crashes (at least once an hour). When it crashes, it usually doesn’t even give a crash report. We’re all happy if we’re able to get our work back in the recovery (rare), even if all of the links are broken in ID. After speaking with Adobe tech support and hearing over and over that the problem is a known issue that’s being worked on, I can’t afford to wait for it to be fixed. I’m having to wipe and reload Tiger. And I did research this, but everyone seemed to think there were no compatibility issues with the brand new OS and CS3…

    [TC: This (suspected) Nav Services problem didn’t appear in our internal testing, and it doesn’t affect all users. The current situation is that we’ve sent Apple as much information as possible about this problem, and all we can do is wait for them to act on it on an OS level.]

  17. Kenrik March says:

    I work for an ad agency and my copy of Leopard & Indesign CS3 are 100% legal (purchased direct from Adobe and Apple)

    I have an issue with indesign crashing in Leopard when I Save, Print, Make PDFs, Open Files, etc.. anything that has to do with import/export/open/save.

    Also when I can actually export PDFs not all of the images will retain their clipping paths!! if I remake the PDF some that did not retain the paths will now display fine but others will loose the path.

    This is terrible!! I am VERY unhappy with Adobe/Apple for letting this happen.

    My copy of CS3 ran perfect on Tiger.. I installed Leopard and instantly I am in a designers worst nightmare!

  18. I have the exact same situation as you Kenrik!!

    I don´t know what to do
    re-install Tiger on a second harddrive.
    or work on another computer untill adobe fix the problemes…

  19. I have found a solution!!!!!!

    Put in the install disc and uninstall Version cue. after that no problemes with open, closing, hiding etc. my weekwnd is saved…

  20. karenAK says:

    When I used the “solution” above–removing version cue–it rendered Photoshop unusable. When Photoshop started up I got some sort of strange “Adobe Space Monkey” screen that told me that the serial number info for my copy of photoshop was missing. I then had to reload Version Cue and Photoshop.

    My original problem was that Indesign CS2 running leopard would quit when I went to import a graphic. This problem occurred sporadically since I installed leopard. But has happened with increased frequency in the last week.

    I keep dumping the preferences to get ID back up, but this in truly ponderous. My productivity is really suffering now because of this problem.

    This is a legal, licensed and registered copy of CS2.

    As much as I HATE Quark, I might have to go back on my oath never to use it again, just to be able to finish my work in a timely fashion.

    I have been sending in the incident reports.

    [TC: Karen, are you using CS2, and not CS3? The former isn’t built or tested for use on Leopard (and I’d expect unpredictable behavior). If it’s CS3, then you might be running into a problem which appears on some PPC and fewer Intel Macs, the Nav Svcs issue. Anders reported that uninstalling Version Cue solved his problem, but my most recent post expresses skepticism on Adobe’s part that doing that uninstall is going to fix that issue for anyone. We don’t think that’s where the problem lies.]

  21. Aaron says:

    I have installed CS2 and CS3 on a PowerMac dual 2.0 running Leopard. The problem I am experiencing with InDesign is the same with both CS2 and CS3: The program crashes when exporting to PDF and sometimes when printing. I reinstalled Leopard using the Archive and Install (unchecking the import User/Network info), but the problem persisted. After reading some of the comments on the web, I thought it was a conflict with the now-protected Helvetica and Helvetica Neue, so I cleaned up the folders per the guidelines from Extensis for using Suitcase Fusion. The problem persisted. After reading this blog, I deleted the user preferences for both versions, and I was able to create the PDF. Later the same day, the problem popped up again. Deleting the preferences again fixed the problem. Strange. Also strange that the installing CS2 and Leopard on an older PowerMac single-processor 1.8 has resulted in no problems whatsoever. Any ideas on what keeps corrupting my user preferences? Thanks.

  22. Tony Seddon says:

    I hope it’s going to be useful for everyone if I tell you that apart from the known issue with hiding for InDesign CS3 I’ve not experienced any problems whatsoever with CS3 and Leopard on my G4 Powerbook (PPC). The important point I should make is that I am NOT running Version Cue. I would suggest that anyone who is unable to open or save files should try switching off Version Cue for the time being as this may get you around the problem. Could I also suggest that you try cleaning out your system fonts of everything apart from those required by the system for normal operation. There’s a very useful PDF guide that can be downloaded from the Extensis site if you’re unclear about which fonts can be removed. Hope that helps.

  23. Tony Seddon says:

    I just re-read Tim’s response to KarenAK’s post, pointing out that they don’t think Version Cue is the problem, so I hope I haven’t confused the issue. I did want to clarify that I’m not suggesting you delete Version Cue, just disable it in the System Preferences panel. That way, if it makes no difference you can simply switch it back on again.

    [TC: Thanks for the posts, Tony. As you’ll see in my most recent post on the issue, we now believe it’s quite possible that Version Cue’s interaction with Leopard has something to do with the Nav Svcs crashes. Your experience is a useful data point in the discussion.]

  24. Anders Pettersson says:

    Hello again!

    It has been ten days since I uninstalled
    Version cue.

    I work as a DTP 12-15 hr/day with ind Cs3
    (Open and closing a lot of files from other program during the day)

    I have only had one crash the last ten days, that was after hiding the program.

    After stop hiding – no crashes.
    I produce a lot of ads and send a lot of pdf for prewiev- no crashes with export!

    Running a dual G5 Leopard!

    Sorry for bad English

    /Anders

  25. Regina says:

    Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! Thank you!

    I can’t say it enough. Jason’s comment on Nov 9th about trashing the preferences folder was exactly what i needed. I was about to uninstall Leopard just so I could get back to work. I couldn’t save or export anything in InDesign! I was about to loose my mind. Thank you for this message board!

    Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! Thank you!

  26. Phil says:

    I bought legitimately CS3 Design suite in December, and to be honest I’ve only just discovered that indesign isn’t working in leopard for me.

    Everything else works great, albeit with a few bugs here and there, but indesign wont even start.

    It’s not a major killer I just hope both Adobe and Apple manage to sort it out between themselves and release suitable updates and fixes.

    [TC: Hi Phil, we know of know problems that prevent the release versions of InDesign CS3 from launching, so if you’re crashing on launch we’d like to get crash logs and bug reports. Thanks.]

  27. Perry says:

    This is direct from my consulting with Adobe support as of two months ago. Support mentioned that Master Coll CS3 was designed for Tiger. Full Leopard support wouldn’t be available until CS4. Adobe customers should postpone Leopard if possible.

    Perhaps this also applies to the individual apps? *shrug*

    [TC: Perry, the support person to whom you spoke is mistaken. Its unfortunate that you received misinformation.

    CS3 was built and tested using pre-release versions of Leopard. CS3 is officially Leopard compatible.

    That said, there are known issues with both Photoshop and InDesign on Leopard, and those issues need to be addressed by Leopard updates from Apple. Those fixes are coming. Apple and Adobe are working together to get these issues addressed as quickly as possible.

    Adobe cannot announce or predict when those fixes will be delivered. We will alert our users as soon as Apple releases updates that contain the necessary fixes for Photoshop and InDesign.]

  28. Wayne says:

    I’m running Adobe CS3 (legal) Suite under Leopard on a DualCore MacPro – all clean install with the new computer.
    InDesign (version 5.01) keeps ‘hanging’ on me (crashes, but is still visible in open apps, need to force quit it).
    Where exactly is the preferences file (and what is it called)?, as I don’t have an Adobe Indesign folder in my ~/Library/Preferences
    p.s. the inability to hide is very annoying.

    [TC: Hi Wayne, there’s no need to locate it on your own. When you launch InDesign, immediately press Shift+ctrl+option+cmd. This will bring up a dialog box asking you if you want to delete your preferences.]

  29. Erika Holmqusit says:

    Hi Tim. I am running a legal copy of InDesign CS3 v 5.0.2.640 on leopard.

    InDesign consistently crashes any time it hits the finder — when I try to place or relink images, export or “save as”.

    Any thoughts?

    [TC: It sounds like you’re experiencing the Nav Svcs problem with Leopard. It’s been described up here on this blog several times, and it afflicts some users of Leopard, more often those with PPC machines. We are waiting for Apple to release an update to Leopard that fixes this problem. You can scan the comments up here on the InDesign and Leopard threads and see suggestions that others have posted to help reduce the impact of this Leopard problem. We’re doing everything we can on our end to work with Apple to get a fix out, but at this point it’s up to Apple to identify the problem, make the fix and get an update out to users.]

  30. c_kais says:

    I am trying to run a perfectly legal version of InDesign on my new 8-core Mac Pro. InDesign will not even start. I have reinstalled CS3 twice, removing all prefs, etc. Crashes at the same spot every time with this:

    Version: 5.0.2.640 (5020)
    Code Type: X86 (Native)
    Parent Process: launchd [145]

    Date/Time: 2008-02-11 16:33:50.216 -0800
    OS Version: Mac OS X 10.5.2 (9C31)
    Report Version: 6

    Exception Type: EXC_BAD_ACCESS (SIGSEGV)
    Exception Codes: KERN_PROTECTION_FAILURE at 0x00000000bf7ffff4
    Crashed Thread: 0

    Hoped 10.5.2 would help, but it hasn’t.
    Adobe Support has not responded to my support requests.
    Any help appreciated.

    [TC: Sorry you’re having a problem Corey. Please file a crash log for us. I’ll pass your note on to engineering.]

  31. Kim says:

    To Erika (previous post) – if you use Linotype FontExplorer on your machine, this causes problems with InDesign under 10.5.2 (crashing/freezing on Startup). There is a new update from Linotype that fixes this issue: http://fex.linotype.com/FontExplorerX123.dmg

  32. Dan says:

    I have perfectly legal software. I was experiencing instability problems and other anomalies with InDesign (started at 5.0 on Leopard). The “hiding” problem that other people have mentioned in the comments above started to manifest. But I worked around it. Crashes and so forth were intermittent. I continued to think these were minor issues which might be resolved with updates. HOWEVER… and this may be coincidental….the problems really compounded after I ATTEMPTED the latest update on Acrobat Pro. I say “attempted” because the update on Acrobat would not complete successfully. I did a reinstall of Acrobat and then tried the update as Adobe instructed but it still would not do the update successfully.

    It was then that the InDesign problems really started. Corrupting files and quitting. Unexpected quits would happen at a number of junctures such as being in a dialog to place an image. But there are so many different circumstances that brought it about I could not narrow the problem down.

    I have submitted the reports on the crashes. I have searched for clues and help in places like this blog and Adobe Forums and have tried some of the suggestions made, such as removing the prefs and resetting. I have uninstalled and reinstalled. Now the application will not launch. PERIOD.

    My system is simple. I avoid third-party software as much as possible. I notice some people address the issue of font management in relation to these problems. But I even stay away from Extensis, preferring just to use Leopard’s font management capability. I have 2 gigs of memory. I’m running a G5 iMac. Everything runs beautifully but perhaps my most important tool, InDesign. Actually, so far Illustrator, Dreamweaver, and Photoshop are running well even after updates.

    Help! I’m in a panic, stressing over looming deadlines for a couple of book interiors. Anybody with any more clues…PLEASE.

    When it appears the problem is with the product, as evidenced by the fact that many people are experiencing the problems, it hardly seems fair that we must pay the maker of the product a fee to resolve the problem. Tim, what is your advice?

    [TC: Hi Dan, sorry you’re having problems. I forwarded your problem description to one of our support managers, and this is her advice:

    Dan needs to contact technical support so an agent can get some details he hasn’t provided (such as what exactly happened when he tried to update…errors, crash, warning?)

    There are lots of scenarios (not just installation) that are supported free of charge. Since he’s crashing and was unable to update it’s unlikely this is a chargeable incident.

    All he needs to do is register the product to receive technical support.]

  33. David Wood says:

    Hello,

    Just wanted to add a note here. I just purchased a new 2.4GHz Intel Core 2 Duo with 3 GB, 24inch iMac running Leopard 10.5.2 and a ATI Radeon HD2600 display card.
    I am also using a legal copy of InDesign CS2 that has worked fine for years using an older G4 and OS 10.4.3. InDesign crashes consistently whenever I change the display setting from typical to high for ALL Illustrator EPS files that are linked into my documents. I have been forced to resign myself to working using Typical display setting. I have trashed the prefs, uninstalled version cue and still have problems. I would prefer to see my layouts in High Display so that transparency features view properly. Has anyone noticed the same issue? Does anyone know of a way to fix this?

    Thank you.

    [TC: ID CS2 does not officially support Leopard. Only CS3 has been developed and tested with Leopard builds.]

  34. Carlos Cruz says:

    Hello,

    I am wondering if I am the only one who is experiencing this issue. I installed 10.5 over 10.4. In Illustrator CS3, I am currently unable to view the workspace window. I can see the files layers in the layer palette. I can do a print preview but the window for the workspace is completely hidden. I have tried key buttons and nothing I do within the app works.

    In order for me to get AI to work correctly I have to delete the Illustrator CS3 folder in the /user/library/preference folder and reboot my machine. That only works for a limited time as well.

    I have even removed CS3 completely from my machine and reinstalled with the same issue noted.

    I am having this problem on both my iMac 2G Intel Core Duo (2GB Ram) and my 17 Powerbook 1.33 GHz PowerPC G4 (2GB Ram)

    Any insight would be appreciated. Thanks.

  35. Johnny B says:

    I’ve found a solution to this issue.

    For a while I was dealing with the same issues that everyone has written about. The crashing when saving or exporting. The failure to come up when switching between applications.

    As a temporary fix to the problem I was dumping my preferences, thus having to reset my panel layouts and default measuring increments so on and so forth. This would last about a week or so before I was again plagued with pulling my hair out and flipping of my screen.

    Finally I got tired of going through all the same steps over and over and I ended up just dumping the preferences for the last time and when I needed to use InDesign, I would leave all the factory settings alone. No more rearranging the panels, no more page size templates, no more convenience, but at least I can actually get some work done.

    It’s been 2 months now and I haven’t had any of the issues that has had me considering switching back to Quark!

  36. Kayt de Fever says:

    I am absolutely hating InDesign CS3. I have spent more time troubleshooting all the problems I’ve been having with it than I’ve spent using it for design.

    Several weeks ago I was experiencing application crashes when I’d try to open, save, or print. I did some research and found that disabling Adobe Updates and uninstalling Version Cue helped.

    The one recurring issue that I haven’t been able to solve is that when I try to update a link using the links palette, InDesign crashes. I’ve tried re-booting, trashing prefs, zapping PRAM, bashing my head against the wall… nothing has helped.

    Anyone care to help me get Adobe off my sh*t list? Thanks.

    [TC: Hi Kayt, sorry we’re on your sh*t list. I know you’d much rather be designing. You must be using Leopard. The issue you’re experiencing has been discussed extensively up here on this blog. The problem you’re having comes from Leopard’s NavSvcs code and it bites you when you’re in a dialog box that enables you to browse your folders…like when you place, save, re-link, etc. The problem is in Leopard, not InDesign, and Apple is working on a fix that will be included in an upcoming OS update. I can’t predict when Apple will deliver this fix. We are working with them on this issue, but it’s ultimately up to them to deliver the fix in an OS update. As soon as Apple announces the fix, I’ll post information to that effect up here on this blog. In the meantime it sounds like you’ve done the right thing in uninstalling Version Cue. I wish I could give you a quick fix, but I can’t. Short of going back to Tiger and waiting for the Leopard update with the fix before reinstalling it again, there’s not much more I can recommend.]

  37. Bob Martin says:

    Let me get this straight. Apple has a problem with Leopard that causes InDesign to crash when it calls a dialog box. And it’s Apple’s fault that this happened.

    [TC: Hi Bob. Yes…exactly.]

    But, it doesn’t happen on any program besides InDesign. Not even other Adobe programs.

    [TC: Actually it can happen in other Adobe CS3 apps, but InDesign is far more likely to have the problem because ID files typically have more linked files, for example. InDesign put a heavier load on the NavSvcs, on average, because it’s a layout app.]

    Then, dare I ask… why not change InDesign’s code so that it doesn’t do what it does when it calls a dialog box?

    [TC: Because it’s not doing anything wrong.]

    Certainly, Apple doesn’t seem to be terribly motivated, now that they’ve released two updates with no mention of the issue.

    [TC: Appearances can be deceiving. As stated multiple times on this blog, Apple changed NavSvcs extensively for Leopard. The problem that Apple identified necessitates some major reworking of said code. It’s a non-trivial fix. The fact that the fix has not yet been delivered is an indicative of the scope of the task, not anyone’s attitude. Apple is working closely with us to get this NavSvcs issue resolved, and the steps to be taken have not yet been announced.]

    I would politely ask Adobe, with whom I’ve spent FAR more money on software than Apple, to rethink what InDesign is doing when it is opening a dialog box.

    [TC: And I would equally politely respond by saying that there’s nothing for us to fix in InDesign. The problem is in the NavSvcs code in the OS, not in anything InDesign is doing.]

    Can’t you guys just use the same algorithm that EVERY other Adobe product uses?

    [TC: We do. We do a lot more work with it because of the nature of the app.]

    C’mon, it’s been nearly 6 months since Leopard hit. YOU ARE KILLING ME HERE. I say, bury your pride and take care of the problem. Otherwise, I gotta say, that quacking sound may actually be a Quarking sound….

    PLEEEEEEEEEEEEASE FIX INDESIGN! Thanks, Bob

    [TC: If our pride was the problem, this issue would have been fixed long ago. We have no problem whatsoever identifying and fixing our own bugs (we’ve released a couple of updates to InDesign CS3 already). In this case, however, because the problem is in the OS, we couldn’t even isolate the bug, because we don’t have the debugging tools for the OS that Apple has. The problem is in the OS. There is nothing to fix in InDesign. If it’s killing you, the best thing I can advise right now to stop the pain is to install Tiger until Apple releases their fix. I can tell you that the problem(s) with the NavSvcs code have been isolated, and Apple is working on getting the fix done. ]

  38. Bob Martin says:

    Thanks for the response Tim. So, one more question – with the current spec for Leopard, is it safe to assume that anyone developing a ground-up application that would extensively utilize NavSvcs experience the same issues (not asking for speculation – what I am getting at is that this a bug that would bite even brand new code written to adhere perfectly to their developer guidelines?)

    And I am very glad they are working on it. Going back to Tiger after using the email client and other features of Leopard would be equally crippling. I’ve invested a lot into both sides of the issue here. Hopefully, they’ll find the fix – I gotta think isolating it is 90% of the work…

    [TC: Good question, Bob, and the short answer is “yes.” Our understanding is that ID isn’t doing anything wrong with NavSvcs, and also that it’s not the only app reporting these problems. The fix isn’t trivial, which explains why Apple has yet to roll it in to an update as of this date. I’m still on Tiger and will remain so until the situation is remedied.]

    Bob

  39. heroina says:

    Hi

    It seems that cleaning user caches (with cocktail or main menu) helps hiding problem // well you still have to clean caches every time before launching the application

  40. andydog says:

    Hi
    I had the same problem with hiding InDesign. Also, sometimes if I did manage to hide it I would be unable to access the application again and would have to force quite.
    I noticed that I only had this problem if my font management software (Fontexplorer in my case) was also hid. With Fontexplorer visible I was again able to access Indesign (but still not hide) -weird

  41. Craig Collins says:

    Hi,

    I’m weighing in on the maddening NavSvcs issue in CS3/10.5.2, which has driven me over the edge and I’ve tried every trick in the book, including running the FixVCUIFramework.app, uninstalling Version Cue (just hung so I deleted everything I could find) along with the usual utilities, fixed permissions, cleaned caches, deleted prefs, many lost hours and blown weekends etc.

    I’m passing this on because at one point I was able to save a problem doc as .inx, then reopen in IDCS3. and voila! it has (knock on wood) not quit since. Update links, relink, export etc. Won’t help you if you can’t even export but some of the cleaning at least got me to that level of functionality.

    So if this is true this does raise the question as to whether this is really entirely an Apple prob, because this sounds more like a subtle corruption in the file itself. At least it’s looking like a workaround for now. It’s also surprising this never appeared in Adobe’s pre-release testing as it seems pretty widespread.

    Meanwhile, got a clue why the palettes (I’m in a dual monitor setup with palettes on secondary monitor) are reverting back to main monitor periodically? Happens with Photoshop CS3 as well…

    [TC: Craig, it’s not a file corruption issue. Apple has isolated the source of the NavSvcs problem, and it’s going to be fixed by an update to Leopard. As to issue with palettes, I hadn’t heard of that, but will investigate.]

  42. Kathryn says:

    I’m running legal versions of Leopard and CS3 and my ID is crashing EVERY TIME I try to relink or place an image! Does anyone have any suggestions?? I’m desperate.

    I regret wasting the money on the new software since I’ll have to revert to the older versions. I had no problems with CS2.

    [TC: Kathryn, if you’re crashing in dialog boxes, it’s probably the Leopard NavSvcs problem that you’re experiencing. Look at the comments for the post titled Leopard Leap to find a workaround that has worked for some people.]

  43. Phatphot says:

    at work I have just setup 7 new 8 core mac pro’s with leopard and CS3 design standard. after install of os updates I ran Onyx ( to re-set all caches and run daily / weekly / monthly scripts ) then installed CS3 ran onyx again, (everything cleaned ) ran adobe updater everything updated ok all the suite seems to work as promised (this is the same fix we used on 10.4 and the new CS2 when it came out. seems to be as the os matures the scripts get run in the back-ground and the probs dissapear.

  44. Jack says:

    I am using ID CS3 on 10.5.2 on a first gen MBP. I have owned it since it shipped, but I haven’t used it in a while. Started on a new project this morning and this hiding issue is killing me. I can repro it 100%. .. when I hide ID, nothing happens, but if I then switch apps or click on the ID icon in the dock, it hides and there is no getting it back short of force quitting. I have seen other posts that suggested changing the keyboard set, changing the kb shortcut, etc. Nothing seems to help. Is there a fix for this coming anytime soon? It’s really frustrating as I hide apps all the time .. going to be a hard habit to break. 🙁

    [TC: Hi Jack, yes, the Hide thing is frustrating. It’s another Leopard thing that Apple has to fix, and it’s not just a problem for InDesign. I don’t think the fix is coming “soon”, but Apple could prove me wrong. I expect it will eventually be addressed, but I suspect we’ll have to wait a couple dot releases before we see it happen.]

  45. Bob Martin says:

    Hi Again, Tim,

    Are you privy to the developer releases? If so, does the next release fix it? While you’ve said that it can happen with other programs, I haven’t encountered it, or seen it with anything else. In one of your answers to me, you said “our understanding is that ID isn’t doing anything wrong”. Prior to that, the “our understanding” words weren’t a part of your statement. Is it possible that perhaps your understanding is, um, not so good on this? And here’s the big question – if Apple doesn’t fix this, what then? How long do we wait?

    Bob

    [TC: Hi Bob. I’m privy to what’s in the developer releases. I don’t use them. I doubt you’ll see any fixes in the next dot release, but I can tell you that they are now planned and being worked on. “Our understanding” simply means that Apple has told us they’ve isolated the problems in their code, and they have not told us that InDesign (or any other Adobe apps that work the same way) are not following Apple guidelines. This comes directly from our developers. As stated before, we don’t have debugging tools yet to isolate bugs that occur during interactions with the Leopard OS. Apple has had to isolate the problems and then let us know what they are. The fixes need to be made to Leopard, not to ID or any other CS apps, and Apple IS going to deliver those fixes.]

  46. ben Frey says:

    …but not in 10.5.3, which was just released into the wild…ID CS3 still crashing for me…big bummer. I wonder if InDesign will work before Leopard turns 1 year old? I’ve learned my lesson…Apple’s priority has officially shifted away from creative professionals and into the wide pockets of iPhone lemmings. When my Mac Pro dies (hopefully not for a few more years), it’s back to Windows. Or maybe I just just turn my Mac Pro into a full-time Windows PC. Just need to get a copy of Vista 64 and the CS. Bummer.

    [TC: Hang in their, Ben. Apple is feeling the heat from their creative customers. Trust me on that. I expect they’re going to work real hard to start addressing the NavSvcs problems in their next Leopard update.]

  47. Bob Martin says:

    Sorry to say this, but after using Leopard since it came out, the only program I experience “Apple’s” Nav Services problem is InDesign. Which I am getting ready to chuck. I am very frustrated. After talking with some street-level Apple people, the word from their camp is that the issue may not be entirely Apple’s. I can’t believe that we are talking about CS 4 while CS3 doesn’t even work right yet. It’s easy to say it’s Apple’s fault and it may be. But right now, the ONLY product that it affects is IDCS3. For Apple to “fix” their entire operating system because one program doesn’t get along with it seems kinda backwards. Can we take up a collection to get Adobe to bite the bullet on this one and give us the same NavSvs they are using on programs like Illustrator, DreamWeaver, Flash, Photoshop, etc? I, and I am sure many others, are thinking enough is enough. THIS is how Quark ceded market share – it was always Apple’s fault – until Adobe pointed the way to something else. You are in just about the same exact position. Sorry to be getting heated about this…

    Bob

    [TC: Hi Bob, I understand the frustration, so no worries. While InDesign might be the only app on your system having this problem with Leopard, the fact is that Apple is well aware that this issue affects other applications besides InDesign. Photoshop and Illustrator use the exact same code as InDesign when it comes to the system navigation dialogs. The difference is that ID simply puts a heavier load on the OS when those dialogs are invoked. I’m also confident in saying that the street level people to whom you’ve spoken are mistaken. As I’ve reiterated time and time again (to the point of my own frustration), if it were our issue, we’d fix it. Period. The fact is, however, it’s not our issue. It’s Apple’s, Apple is well aware of this, and Apple has been working very diligently along with us to isolate the problems and fix them. The fixes are non-trivial, and that’s the reason why we’re all still waiting. The first partial fix, however, was delivered as part of 10.5.3, and more fixes will be coming…from Apple. Apple deserves credit in this situation, because of the work they’ve been doing to address this situation. Obviously, the fixes can’t come soon enough for either you or me, but the reality that it has to come from Apple, it IS coming from Apple, and both Adobe and Apple have been pretty preoccupied with these issues ever since we first became aware of them.]

  48. Bob Martin says:

    OK, here we go. Another partial Leopard release – heck, we’re almost halfway through the incremental releases (based on history). Will it be the one???

  49. steve Hughes says:

    OS X 10.4.1
    Indesign CS3 version 5.0.2

    I did the install as it was recommended to me this morning to update. Now I cant open Indesign, it crashes on LAUNCH, no double clicking icons, just a application launch. One of my clients has a restaurant launch on saturday and I need CS3 up and running.
    This is notthing to do with leopard, is there a know fix??

    [TC: Hi Steve, there’s no known bug or incompatibility of which I’m aware that causes a crash when you launch 5.0.3 on 10.4.x. If this is an installation problem, you should be able to get free tech support at 800-642-3623.]

  50. Charles Haynes says:

    CS3 InDesign will not hide under Leopard. It will not hide under Leopard. Official, paid-for, public release, re-installed, new system set-up… CS3 InDesign will not hide under Leopard. Since I’ve had almost every Adobe app since 1.0 I have enough money invested n these programs to have some attention paid to GETTING IT RIGHT. Don’t you think?

    [TC: Charles, the Hide problem is a known issue. If you read the entries on this blog you’ll see it mentioned many times. You’ll also see that it’s caused by a bug in Leopard that Apple has yet to fix. I expect that Apple will eventually fix this issue with an update to Leopard.]/b>

  51. Michael says:

    I am having the same issue with inability to launch on 10.5.4 with IDCS3 5.0.3 on a G5 PPC

    Have sent numerous crash reports to Adobe.

    [TC: Michael, thanks for submitting the crash logs. Contact Adobe Tech Support. Inability to launch qualifies as an installation problem, for which support is free.]

  52. Thom Lee says:

    Hi Tim
    First of all, I want to thank you for taking on the task of giving answers that are much needed and otherwise very difficult to find. I am a long time CS user experiencing many of the same problems described above since I upgraded my desktop to one that is equipped with Leopard. I’m finding this to be a really good source of information to help deal with the InDesign issues.
    My question is… Are there a similar forums that cover Version Cue, or Bridge, or even the Updater (which is currently frozen while trying to install the InDesign 5.0.3 update)?
    If so, would you point me to them?

    [TC: Thom, the best place to go is to the free Adobe User to User forums on the Adobe website, under the Support menu.]

  53. Luke says:

    I really admire that you take the time to give feedback to comments on here. It’s good to see, and very much appreciated.

    I also have problems with ‘erratic white box phenomenon’ where by clipping paths will turn on and off differently and unpredictably each and every time i print or export it.

    I am not the only person with this problem. There is one person on this page (Kenrik March | December 27, 2007 07:46 AM) and another on your Part 1 blog (marcia | December 20, 2007 02:10 PM).

    a quick google search for ‘indesign CS3 leopard clipping’ will find another 5 pages with people having the same problem.

    Is there any chance you could spread some light on this situation?

  54. Matt says:

    Thanks for responding here.

    I’m having all kinds of problems with my new iMac running Leopard 10.5.4 and IDCS3. Total instability, seemingly random crashes. I’ve done everything I can think of…is there any clue to when this will get fixed? Or is installing Tiger the only way to get a reliable version of IND running?

    [TC: Matt, you should be stable on 10.5.4. I’m using 10.5.5 with only occasional problems with the as yet unfixed Hide issue on Leopard. This tells me there’s something else going on in your system environment that’s causing your instability. Going back to Tiger might fix your problem, but it should not be necessary.]