InDesign & Leopard: Update VII

Anyone having problems with InDesign on Leopard will have observed by now that the 10.5.2 update doesn’t fix the NavSvcs or Hide problems. From what I’ve been able to learn from our own technical people, the changes necessary on Apple’s end to fix the NavSvcs problem involve a re-write of the relevant portions of Leopard’s code, and as such it’s an involved process. That, along with competing priorities, accounts for the absence of that fix in 10.5.1 and 10.5.2. Unfortunately, no word yet on when Apple anticipates delivering this fix.

12 Responses to InDesign & Leopard: Update VII

  1. Adam Wunn says:

    Thanks for your excellent blog and detailed info about the CS3 and OS X issues. This is helpful. I might be dense, but I don’t see a mention of the ID CS 3 to AI copy bug in your recent posts. Has that issue been fixed or is that too waiting on the rewrite that you spoke of in VII or is it waiting for another fix? Thank you.

    [TC: Adam, I had to check with engineering to get the status of this bug. At this moment it’s identified and isolated, but not yet fixed. I expect that it will be corrected in a future dot release.]

  2. Great info to have Tim, thanks so much for all the updated information. This issue is certainly a deal breaker for my studio of 32 other people moving to Leopard. I have a dual 2GHz G5 tower here that has been affected by this issue and, so far, the removal of Version Cue seems to have helped (I also minimized my save and export windows based on a reply post I read on one of your earlier blogs on this subject.) To date, thankfully, my 2.2GHz MacBook Pro has not had this issue.

    Just out of curiosity, where does the FixVCUIFramework app (Adobe kb402521) from November 2007 fit into all this? Would it be worth reinstalling Version Cue and running it or am I late to the party and have you already addressed this question?

    Thanks again.

    [TC: Hi Heath, here’s a response from one of our developers:

    The Leopard Nav Services crash is a separate issue from the FixVCUIFramework issue, although the symptoms may look identical to the user: crashes when opening Nav Services dialogs.

    The VersionCue 3.1 updater failed on many customer machines, leaving the VersionCue client libraries (which InDesign and Illustrator call in order to invoke the Nav Services dialogs) not fully installed. In this situation, InDesign would fail to load the library and crash. This failed VC update could happen on both Tiger and Leopard. FixVCUIFramework did just that: fix any messed up VersionCue 3.1 update.]

  3. S Matthew says:

    The PDF at leopardsupport.pdf in the At a Glance table gives InDesign CS3 a tick for compatibility with Leopard but doesn’t mention any of the issues as described in your blog. Surely this gives a false impression?

    Thank you for keeping us informed.

    [TC: I’d have to agree that it’s at best an incomplete statement. The Nav Svcs problem is nowhere near universal on Leopard, but it’s pretty severely debilitating for those that encounter it. The InDesign Read Me files have been updated with this information, but I’d agree that that the At a Glance document should have some asterisks and footnotes added.]

  4. Ken Elmer says:

    How can I tell which issue I have or both? The Leopard Nav Services crash or the FixVCUIFramework issue? Does it matter? Either way I’m going to have to wait until Apple addresses it right?

    [TC: Hi Ken, it matters because one if repairable right now with a fix from Adobe, the other is not.

    The Leopard Nav Services crash is a separate issue from the FixVCUIFramework issue, although the symptoms may look identical to the user: crashes when opening Nav Services dialogs.

    The VersionCue 3.1 updater failed on many user’s machines, leaving the VersionCue client libraries (which InDesign and Illustrator call in order to invoke the Nav Services dialogs) not fully installed. In this situation, the library would fail to load and that would cause a crash.

    This failed VC update could happen on both Tiger and Leopard.

    FixVCUIFramework script repairs those broken libraries.

    You can get the script here:

    http://kb.adobe.com/selfservice/viewContent.do?externalId=kb402521&sliceId=1

  5. Ken Elmer says:

    Tim, whatever they are paying you, it’s not enough. Thank you. I obviously have the Nav Services issue. I already downloaded and launched the FixVCU script and InDesign still crashes at every dialogue. Doing a clean install is just not an option for me as it would interrupt my business workflow… This is costing my little business hundreds every week… I also read in your blog that this is only happening to people with pirated software… and build numbers from prereleases. That is not the case in my situation. I guess my question is: does apple ever plan to repair the issue or am I simply going to have to take two days to reinstall everything?

    [TC: Hi Ken. I agree…it’s not enough. ;^) First, the NavSvcs problem affects legal copies. Pirated pre-release software was crashing on launch, but the Leopard issue with dialogs that navigate the file system can afflict anyone…it’s more common on PPC machines, but it also appears on MacTel boxes as well. I can tell you that Apple IS working on this. There have been developments, but unfortunately nothing I can talk about at this time. I also cannot give you a time frame for a Leopard release that addresses the NavSvcs problem, so I can’t tell tell you whether you should go back to Tiger or not. That said, if it’s costing you hundreds a week, I’d definitely consider going back to Tiger until Apple delivers something that addresses the NavSvcs problems.]

  6. Ken Elmer says:

    Thanks again Tim. Your services are invaluable. I have a PPC so I believe that is what I will do… go back to Tiger. This whole thing seems disappointingly unlike Apple though. I have had such confidence in the OS X series in the past.

    [TC: To be fair to Apple, these kinds of bugs happen, and sometimes the fix is decidedly non-trivial…as in this case. They’re working on this problem and they want to get it remedied as soon as possible.]

  7. Ken Elmer says:

    Tim, point taken… guess it’s just hard not to whine when you’ve been so spoiled for so long. I probably owe Apple a little wiggle room on this one. I’ll be patient.. and thanks once more…

    [TC: For the record, to say we’re eager for Apple to address this problem is an understatement. We’d like to be able to recommend Leopard to CS3 users without caveat.]

  8. Pascal Clarkson says:

    We are working with Leopard and CS3 and are dealing with the NavSvcs problems. I’ve noticed that if you use spotlight while (opening or placing images etc.) ID is more likely to crash. Also after a crash it seems to help to restart ID close / save all recovered files and restart ID. Make sure to reopen any document through the open dialog box instead of dragging files to your dock. To me ID seems to react better this way. I’m still not sure if this method will work on all configurations.

    We’re also experiencing problems with images being flipped upside down when exporting a ID doc to pdf.
    Are there any workarounds / solutions available?

    We also have encountered some problems with text being removed while substituting fonts. Any known issues with text disappearing?

  9. Lee Bennett says:

    I have discovered a workaround for the NavSvcs bug. Note, only a workaround and NOT a solution. These steps must be performed each time InDesign CS3 is first launched (and let me point out I’ve seen the crash happen under Leopard with CS2 as well).

    http://momusradar.wordpress.com/2008/04/02/a-workaround-for-unexpected-quits-in-indesign-cs3/

    This site suggesting saving a Postscript file, but saving a PDF works just the same.

    [TC: Thanks Lee. What’s effective here is not what you’re saving, but the act of invoking the dialog boxes.]

  10. This strange workaround actually worked for me. I’m on a PPC G5 running OSX 1.5.3 and a legal copy of IDCS.

    If I knew how to use apple script I’d make a little script that ran that sequence every time ID is run.

    Anybody Know Applescript?

  11. David Ingram says:

    Something is really wrong.

    My problems started
    after “incorrectly” uninstalling CS3

    QuarkXPress, Indesign CS2
    fail to Save as, or export PDF both crash w Bad access

    Using SP G4 733 w 1.5 GB ram on OSX 10.4.11

    Tried New admin user
    still crashes
    tried reinstalling apps
    CS2/ Quark
    cannot save as or export pdf

    Have repaired permissions
    have used Apple disc utility and cache cleaner

    Have tried fix VCUI framework.

    Have tried reinstalling CS3 and “properly” uninstalling it.

    Have tried maintenance scripts/ etc to no avail

    found one IP named directory in ym / volumes folder… deleted it with no help to crash/ save as issue.

    Turned off all fonts, tried to create new document, just 8.5×11 with one magenta or cyan box on it CRASH!

    WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG???
    (Please)
    I’m a new designer at this shop and I’m unable to reformat cause this station also runs our Retrospect backups and our FTP server too.

    Everythign works fine in the case of opening an existing document, making modifications and saving using command-s
    but a new document from
    Quark, Indesign, Word or anything, a new retrospect backup set.. will fail and crash the program.

    As will get picture in quark or indesign or export PDF.

    if I install a BRAND new hard disc and start from scratch will my problems be fixed?

    [TC: David, I can’t trouble-shoot your problem from this blog. I’d recommend you contact Tech Support at 800-642-3623 (installation problems get free support), and also post your problem up on the User to User forums on the Adobe website (also free).]

  12. Evelyn Shapiro says:

    We are having the same problems crashing in Quark 7/Leopard. Have you found any solutions yet? It’s really getting in the way of getting anything done!

    [TC: Evelyn, you’ll probably have better luck searching the Quark forums for solutions to problems running XPress 7 on Leopard.]