Comments on: What, exactly, does CS4 offer photographers & others?

By: twistysilver@gmail.com

twistysilver@gmail.com — Wed, 04 Nov 2009 20:47:53 +0000

I won’t be buying cs4.
The adjustment panel is a joke.

By: T. Schmidt

T. Schmidt — Thu, 28 May 2009 15:31:11 +0000

I guarantee you, if you don’t change the most core functions of the application, nobody and I mean nobody will call them bloat. New features that don’t work too well, are a different story.
I wonder how many people have to tell you that they don’t consider the dialogs bloat. Anyone who uses the AP doesn’t notice them, why consider them bloat? You could make it a simple option in the AP options. One little checker and everybody is happy. Nothing to reprogram as the dialogs are all still in there now, only unaccessable due to another huge usability fail. Please fix as soon as possible. Thanks.

By: Igor Levicki

Igor Levicki — Mon, 16 Mar 2009 19:37:50 +0000

Adobe seems to be falling into a trap called “firefox”.
With each new version Firefox developers add some “new and improved” way of doing something.
Last thing they have added is the ability for the browser to remember the page zoom factor for each URL visited.
It would be nice if it worked properly (if levicki.net and http://www.levicki.net were detected as a same website) and if it was OPTIONAL.
However, there is no visible UI option to turn this feature off (except by digging through about:config) and to revert to previous behavior.
Before that they introduced close button on each tab instead of only one close button at the window edge. Again, it was a behavior breaking change and again it wasn’t OPTIONAL.
So, if there is a sure way to piss off long time users of any software it is this — make a behavior breaking UI change, make it a new default, and don’t allow us to revert to the old way. We just love that… NOT.
[I don't know what, specifically, you're talking about in Photoshop. I do know that if we keep old ways of working alongside the new ways, you (or someone) will excoriate us about bloat & redundancy. --J.]

By: Ben Richardson

Ben Richardson — Mon, 02 Mar 2009 06:39:17 +0000

“Ben, I really, *really* need to hear *specifics* about what bothers you, in chapter and verse.”
Working on it. Thanks, Ben

By: Ben Richardson

Ben Richardson — Sat, 28 Feb 2009 19:45:01 +0000

It’s depressing this many months after the CS4 launch, that *still* the only advantages anyone can claim for the Adjustments Panel are theoretical: “improved ‘workflow’,” and “non-modal is the future”. It hasn’t improved my workflow – it’s completely messed it up, to the point where CS4 may be the first update since v5 I skip altogether.
I honestly don’t think Adobe understand the way in which professional retouchers (who live and die by adjustment layers if they’re worth their salt) use the modal dialogs and the old shortcuts to make quick, decisive moves.
Some manager somewhere may have felt dissatisfied that the shortcuts weren’t the same between apps, or that Photoshop’s colour tools weren’t the result of a single clear line of reasoning. The fact is, they might not have been design perfection, but they were perfect – and I really do mean perfect – for swift, skilful work.
Look to Terry Gilliam’s Jabberwocky, and the oh-so-helpful Michael Palin character “improving efficiency” in the blacksmiths. Adjustments Panel == tin of nails.
[Ben, I really, *really* need to hear *specifics* about what bothers you, in chapter and verse. Talking about "workflow" (a pistol-whipped abstraction of a buzzword if ever there was one) or speculating about pointy-haired managers doesn't give me anything actionable. I'll post a query on this subject. --J.]

By: T. Schmidt

T. Schmidt — Sun, 15 Feb 2009 12:32:09 +0000

[Sure they would. They'd complain about Photoshop being "bloated" with redundant, overlapping ways of working. --J.]
That’s the most risible argument for forcing costumers to use a slower workflow I’ve ever heard. I really thought you learned your lesson after CS3′s GUI disaster. If you OFFER a new function (as you promised personally), different users might find a way to work with it and see improvements, then show the rest of us and we adapt.
If you FORCE us to use it, you risk that the feature is slow crap and nobody finds a fast way to use it (as is still the case). Go to your own forums and find out about it.
As soon as I see a video of someone taking less time to do curves adjustments in CS4 than me in CS1 I accept the feature but still won’t accept the strategy of just shoving it down our throats.
Unfortunately the Photohop-guys with their show that only features newbie-tips are slower than a turtle.

By: Edward Caruso

Edward Caruso — Wed, 11 Feb 2009 18:54:41 +0000

Let me preface this by saying this is not mean spirited or close-minded criticism. Its just that Photoshop is very important to many of our careers so we care that it works for us. I wouldn’t spend this time complaining about itunes.
- Add me to the list of customers greatly dissatisfied with the adjustments panel.
[Can you be more specific? --J.]
There is this adobe forum thread titled “Not happy about Adjustments panel” with 172 posts: http://www.adobeforums.com/webx?14@@.59b69a82/0
-[If you want the Curves dialog, download this panel. --J.]
Now that’s nice, can we have those for all of the adjustments? And I don’t want buttons in my workspace nor fly out tabs (just keycommands) so can there be the CS3 modal boxes invoked by keycommands? That curve dialogue works just like the one in CS3, you don’t need to have the eyedropper selected to set a control point.
- If I am working on an adjustment layer then I decide to cancel it altogether I just press escape in CS3 and the dialogue box disappears and there is no layer in my stack. In CS4 I assigned F14 to close the adjustment panel but it still adds the layer in the stack even if I don’t need it. So I have to go and delete it. I see there are these icons on the bottom of the panel but they are annoying, I prefer alittle bit of text like the CS3 boxes. Using option to invoke a reset button was great in CS3, as was just hitting enter to accept the change and close the dialogue box.
-I feel that maybe for most experienced Photoshop users (for photography) adjustment layers might be the most important feature. CS4 changes how we have to work with them and its not a small issue to us. If Adobe were to accomadate users by restoring this legacy workflow you would make alot of people happy. If all the new UI additions like the app frame, tabs, etc. are optional why can’t this be too?
I just don’t see how this panel improves workflow for experienced users.

By: Edward Caruso

Edward Caruso — Tue, 10 Feb 2009 19:11:58 +0000

Add me to the list of customers greatly dissatisfied with the adjustments panel. [Can you be more specific? --J.] All I ask for is an option to return to the dialogue box behavior in CS3. [If you want the Curves dialog, download this panel. --J.] Not all of us are new users who need icons to figure out how to adjust our images. [I'm going to repeat this point: The panel isn't meant for new users per se. It's meant to make it possible to do some long-requested things more efficiently. --J.] I cringe whenever I see it. Is there any possibility we can see this return to photoshop in a free update? [Sorry, no. Making Photoshop less modal is fundamentally the right thing to do. It's useful to focus on what, specifically, you'd like changed about the panel. --J.]

By: T. Schmidt

T. Schmidt — Sun, 25 Jan 2009 04:31:18 +0000

Alan Gilbertson, regarding your comment on the Adjustmen Panel, there hasn’t been a single demonstration or tutorial in the entire intdustry of this feature that shows that it’s fast.
The reason is, that it’s slowing you down, if you were a fast user before and only speeds you up, if you knew very little about the app before or used a super slow workflow (such as the Photoshop guys from Photoshop User TV). Therefore it can not be shown to the user. Instead they toss it out and hope that someone can figure out a way to work fast with it. Hasn’t happened yet.
I’m still waiting for someone who is faster with the AP than I am with the dialogs in older Ps versions.

By: Stephen Best

Stephen Best — Thu, 22 Jan 2009 16:32:35 +0000

[Sure they would. They'd complain about Photoshop being "bloated" with redundant, overlapping ways of working. --J.] Like there's NO redundancy at all in Photoshop? :-) [I'm not sure I understand your point. You're saying that things stick around too long, but that in this case we should have kept both the old and the new? --J.] I wasn't taking a side either way, just noting that this is a change where compatibility with existing workflows was previously given more emphasis. As for the Adjustment panel, maybe I didn't make it clear that I'm not for or against it (I'd like the +/- shortcut to work all the time though) but there's more productive ways Adobe could be spending its time ... IMHO.

By: Stephen Best

Stephen Best — Thu, 22 Jan 2009 14:31:06 +0000

Alan Gilbertson:
A case in point is the adjustment panels. The complainers are still in the old modal dialog mindset and haven’t scratched the surface of the workflow enhancement, and Adobe’s not done a good job of reaching those folks with the Good News.
The Adjustment panel is a contentious issue and a good exemplar of what’s good/bad about CS4. First up, if it was optional nobody would be complaining.
[Sure they would. They'd complain about Photoshop being "bloated" with redundant, overlapping ways of working. --J.]
So if the Adjustment panel is displayed, use it otherwise bring up the tried & true dialog. Given that legacy functionality seems to stick around in Photoshop long after its use-by date, forcing workflow changes is a radical change and just invites criticism.
[I'm not sure I understand your point. You're saying that things stick around too long, but that in this case we should have kept both the old and the new? --J.]
Secondly, the Adjustment panel doesn’t buy much in the grand scheme of things. Unless you hadn’t twigged that there were such things as “adjustment layers”. Yes you can save a few clicks, change the blend mode etc but big deal. When you factor in the extra seconds deciphering Adobe’s god-awful adjustment icons you’re probably behind. Its non-modality also raises some interesting issues of shortcuts and how it marries to the history, something I still feel a bit uncomfortable about. The biggest issue for me however is that of the +/- keyboard shortcuts to move between points going AWOL, something Adobe support is still looking into.
However, I can see PLENTY of other areas in Photoshop much more deserving of programming effort than the shuffling of deck chairs that the Adjustment panel typifies for me. Like using the computing resources I have on (or rather beside) my desk. Given that even bottom end computers these days come with 2 or more processors, the amount of multithreaded code in Photoshop is a disgrace. The time it takes to open and close large files in itself wipes out the milliseconds I would gain each day using the Adjustment panel. It’s when you see Adobe trumpeting features that I don’t really need and neglecting doing what it should to bring Photoshop into the 21st century that is probably at the heart of dissatisfaction with the changes in CS4. (As for Adobe’s Open GL implementation, the less said about this the better.)
Good luck with the evangelizing.

By: Alan Gilbertson

Alan Gilbertson — Wed, 21 Jan 2009 17:54:03 +0000

There’s a fundamental that I run into repeatedly when I’m teaching/evangelizing CS4 (Photoshop or InDesign or Dreamweaver or Flash) to friends and associates, especially if they “grew up” with an earlier version.
It is this: new features are not the same as new *workflows*.
The engineering team spends 1000s of hours examining user workflows and working out ways to speed things up. Good so far. They implement them in the new version. Still good. But then these things are promoted as new *features* instead of “Here’s the problem, here’s the solution” (which is how these new features got there in the first place).
The truth is that as the apps develop they demand a new way of working, and many folks are trying to make CSx work like CS(x-1) because that’s the workflow they know.
A case in point is the adjustment panels. The complainers are still in the old modal dialog mindset and haven’t scratched the surface of the workflow enhancement, and Adobe’s not done a good job of reaching those folks with the Good News.
Old ways of doing things still work, but the new workflows need to be explained, or people a) don’t get the rationale, so they b) don’t really receive the benefit, and c) express their frustration by complaining about how “Adobe messed it up.”
The development cycle has passed the point where the enhancements are blindingly obvious or can be appreciated in isolation.
I’ve learned to work differently and as a result I get way more done in much less time than I could with CS3. Despite some issues with CS4′s performance, I would not go back, any more than I’d go back to CS2, CS or PS 7.

By: Jim Esten

Jim Esten — Tue, 20 Jan 2009 09:40:18 +0000

OK, I took a deep breath and did some more googling using different word combinations. I see that the 64-bit issue is around Apple’s Cocoa implementation. Can you offer a guess as to when CS5 will be released?
[Historically Photoshop has been on an 18-24 month release cycle. That would put the CS5 launch somewhere in the March-September 2010 time frame. --J.]

By: Jim Esten

Jim Esten — Sun, 18 Jan 2009 11:20:38 +0000

I just bought an 8-core Mac Pro specifically for Photoshop work, only to find out: 1. it’s no faster than a quad core when using Photoshop 2. Photoshop CS4 is a 32-bit app whereas it’s 64-bit on Windows. I feel like an idiot for not doing more research. Most professional photographers use Macs, so I stupidly assumed it would be better. John, did I waste my money, or does Adobe plan to upgrade the code?
Embarrassed in Denver,
Jim

By: thinsoldier

thinsoldier — Fri, 16 Jan 2009 18:02:17 +0000

More bridge bugs.
If I copy a file within bridge and go to explorer I can’t “paste shortcut”.
There’s no way to manually enter a path into the path bar. (stop copying apple, their decisions aren’t as great as they try to make people think they are!)