Comments on: The design of Adjustments in CS4 [Part 2 of 3]

By: Jan Kabili

Jan Kabili — Thu, 26 Mar 2009 14:27:50 +0000

Excellent piece from Bryan. Thanks to both of you. I agree that the new Adjustments panel is a big step forward. Kudos.
But (and there’s always a but, isn’t there) I’d recommend working on making the panel smaller. It’s so big it ends up hogging my valuable right panel column. Dragging it out of there into another column isn’t a great solution, because the inner column gets in the way of the doc window–particularly when teaching at a lower resolution required by many projectors. If leaving the presets out of the initial view of the Adjustments panel would help make the panel smaller, that’s what I would vote for. I seldom think of using a preset until after I’ve gotten into the controls for a specific adjustment. I’d imagine other people take the same approach–macro to get to an adjustment; then micro to access presets as well as individual settings. Just my two cents after using the Adj panel so much lately.

By: Marky

Marky — Thu, 26 Mar 2009 11:35:23 +0000

Yes, problem is they do seem to be getting more inebriated as the years and the versions roll by John
Its a feature worth having – but would be better implemented by holding down some MODIFIER keys and double clicking – remembering please that Option and Shift also change the scrubby sliders operation in very useful ways. This new annoyance, at the moment in Adjustment Layers at least, downgrades all the great work you did on scrubby sliders.

By: Marky

Marky — Thu, 26 Mar 2009 05:11:08 +0000

All of these things are EASILY customiseable with Actions. If you want a new Color blended Curves adjustment, you create an Action for it and assign an F key. Its really simple, always was.
The main problem with the panel is that while you are USING the adjustment layer – adjusting the values, changing ranges in Hue/sat, toggling the histogram, trying to use the scrubby sliders etc – its MUCH more cubersome than its been since Photoshop 6.
The scrubby sliders (one example, useful for making subtle hue adjustments in Hue/sat for example) have been ruined, with any double click on the word resetting the values back to zero. As a result its now extremely fiddly and difficult to do this with a tablet. It’s changes like this that make you wonder if they are consulting professional users at all when making these decisions. Its like things are happily going backwards in terms of usability.
[So, then, no one must value the ability to easily reset the values of the sliders. (We only consult with inebriated vagrants at the Greyhound station, btw.) --J.]

By: T. Schmidt

T. Schmidt — Wed, 25 Mar 2009 18:12:36 +0000

Nobody says the AP doesn’t have potential. That’s not the point. You’re making up an easy to bash claim, that I never made. Take the AP and keep working on it but even if you might come up with something decent one day, that is still no reason to keep us from working the old, but way more importantly FAST way.
I’m not suggesting to stop working on the panel. I’m mostly aggressive against this attitude to just set defaults for us, as if we needed your presets and symbols, because we’re to dumb to come up with decent adjustments ourselves.
I know you hate repetitions but you keep asking for it. We’re not agianst the panel’s existence (although rather redundant). I’m against your way to force us to use it.
And talking about bloat, what other than bloat are the icons? If I could turn them off I’d ignore them. You force me to hate them, poor icons.
A function I find neat is the ability to drag inside the picture, still no need for a panel, just add it to the old dialog.
The worst thing is that you made that mistake with the Screen Mode in CS3 and now you repeat it. Just offer us to turn things off and you won’t hear me complain.
I love CS4, you did a great job, don’t ruin it by forcing us and don’t force us to use other features in the future. The AP would find more acceptance if it was an option. Remember mouse and keyboard, both useful.

By: Gio

Gio — Wed, 25 Mar 2009 01:43:00 +0000

I really like the changes and the non-modality. I’d just like to see an easier way to set the blending mode – eg include it in the adjustments panel. Most times I apply a curve, for instance, I also want to apply Luminosity or Color.

By: Milan Smith

Milan Smith — Tue, 24 Mar 2009 18:31:00 +0000

I use Photoshop 8-10h on daily basis and Adjustments panel has definitely improve my work speed. I have been using adjustment layers for some time before the panel was introduced and don’t consider myself a newbie. But the panel itself still need some more refinement. Most of the things have already been mentioned in the previous posts. But one thing hasn’t been addressed: presets in the Adjustments panel. My request, or wish is that you add ability to apply preset that can create multiple adjustment layers – similar to an “action.” That would relay make the presets useful and speed thing significantly.
[Oh yeah, we really want to do that one. --J.]

By: Warren Young

Warren Young — Tue, 24 Mar 2009 10:38:37 +0000

I’ve only responded once before to a post on this blog, and it was on this very topic. It was during the CS4 development cycle, asking for comments on a narrow topic, but I went on a rant asking for non-modality everywhere in Photoshop. When I saw the new Adjustments panel in CS4, I decided you made it for me. :) So, thanks. You’re not finished yet, but this is the right direction.
For those crying about how modal dialogs are so much better: …um, seriously? You actually prefer having a window that obscures what you’re working on, with the lame Preview checkbox which merely simulates non-modality? That’s 9-inch Mac classic screen thinking, right there. Today’s bargain PCs come with 19″ monitors minimum. Cheap little netbooks have bigger screens than the systems Photoshop was first designed for. It’s long past time to do away with modality. It was a fix for a problem we no longer have.
That said, yes, the Adjustments panel does suck a bit, in a 1.0 kind of way. The primary problem is the time it takes to learn what all those little icons do, with no built-in option for moving past that to use keyboard shortcuts. They’re like welded-on training wheels.
Yes, I’m aware you can use the keyboard shortcut editor to reassign, say, Cmd-L to New Levels Adjustment Layer, but the point is that CS4 didn’t do this. You pulled your punch. And, if you do make this change yourself, you don’t get the same effect from pressing Cmd-L as clicking the Levels button on the Adjustments panel: it pops up yet another modal dialog (the “Option” dialog) when you use the shortcut, whereas the button gives fully modeless behavior.
It would be a risky step to reassign all the Cmd-singleletter commands for the image adjustment commands, but doing so will give you more of that Lightroom sort of feel. That is, a tool you can drive like a race car: head always up, flying along at a hundred and fifty down the straightaway. That’s what I want, Adobe, a race car. And a pony.

By: Bryan Hughes

Bryan Hughes — Tue, 24 Mar 2009 08:36:55 +0000

Thanks to all of you for the feedback, it really is our hope that you’ll help us move these features forward for ALL of you. I can’t tell you how much your constructive criticism and detailed suggestions are valued – if you’re happy just the way it is, that’s certainly fine too ;-)
I wanted to share a great article from Debbie Grossman of Popular Photography:
http://www.popphoto.com/Reviews/Accessories/Adobe-Photoshop-CS4-Hands-On
As always, please feel free to ask any questions or pass any feedback directly.
-Bryan O’Neil Hughes
Photoshop Product Manager
bhughes@adobe.com

By: ElliR

ElliR — Tue, 24 Mar 2009 06:22:05 +0000

Guess my comments are going to go against the grain of things then. :-) My first introduction to Photoshop was with CS3 and in all honesty never got to use all of it’s feature set as the entire UI seemed so unfriendly. In the short time that I have been using CS4 I’ve probably used it 500% more than CS3 and find the entire application a dream to use. There are an awful lot of non power users out there to be taken into consideration so I for one wouldn’t like too many changes to the UI.

By: Marky

Marky — Tue, 24 Mar 2009 05:09:32 +0000

“Except that we’ll be criticized for “bloat,” redundancy, even more ways to do the same thing, etc. So it goes” – I fail to see how a single option in Preferences or in the layers panel flyout to enable “Modal Adjustments” could be accused of bloat, and CERTAINLY not of redundancy. Because in CS4 the modal dialog is still the most efficient way to use adjustment layers, brought up using an F key action. ‘more ways to do the same thing’ – this only an alternative way to do things in the INTERFACE, and that’s to be applauded not criticized. Fair enough, hide it behind a preference.
The modal dialogs are faster to use when adjusting the values, deliver useful readings in info, respond to essential speed saving keyboard shortcuts – which mean a lot less mouse clicks.
Another major problem with Curves in the Adjustment panel – Curves Display Options (which I need to change regularly to toggle histogram, or flip Ink to light) is now reachable only via a difficult to access drop down menu. The Dialog has those options permanently visible. Again, a lot less mouse clicks.
There is really a huge list of inconveniences and cludges, and downright useablity issues, that the new panel creates – all of which are avoidable.
I think the main objective , which seems to be making adjustments discoverable for beginners, or people who haven’t done their homework, is OK. But PLEASE don’t make it compulsory for those who do know what they are doing.
Finally to be honest, I agree with most of all is T. Schmidt’s rather aggressively made point – ‘To claim it’s 89% faster than a really crappy workflow doesn’t help much’ – and that’s directed to Bryan
I have only one counter to all these points – The Targeted Adjustment tool has potential, and being able to adjust values within the image is a move forward. It’s not working quickly enough on high res files at the moment.

By: Michael Adler

Michael Adler — Tue, 24 Mar 2009 04:44:12 +0000

I think the last sentence is most interesting: “For the first time in the application’s history we’ve advocated the right thing, up front and helped all users of CS4 take full advantage of the best we have to offer, by default.”
I think you (the developers) ought to recognize that there is some controversy over whether the feature is a good thing for designers already experienced in using adjustments. That you continue to push down the path, ignoring complaints, is frustrating.
The words “by default” are particularly galling, since there is no option other than the default. I wish a script were the simple answer to use modal dialogs, but it isn’t a full solution. I wrote a more complicated script than John’s to pop up a modal dialog for any adjustment layer. It still can’t be used to create the layer and it can’t be bound to a double click on the layer because that isn’t a scriptable event.

By: eeek!

eeek! — Mon, 23 Mar 2009 22:53:34 +0000

I think the people complaining about the way the adjustment panels behave might be thinking the old modal windows are no longer available. They are. Ctrl+M for curves for example!
Just use photoshop the same way you’ve used it with the model windows!
However I do think the modal windows should have an additional option to “turn these settings into an adjustment layer” along with the normal instant-application ‘OK’ button.
And maybe the adjustments panel should have a button for “open the curves modal window with these current settings” just to make everybody happy from both sides.

By: Benny

Benny — Mon, 23 Mar 2009 17:02:11 +0000

The panel is cool and faster to work with for creative stuff. However, I would like some slightly better integration with masks panel. If I become addicted by clicking on the adjustment icon from the layers panel -I would expect the same functionality from the masks panel. I know the usual suspects shortcuts are taken – but why not make the dobbelclick go for the mask panel instead of the “layer mask display options”. That would be topnice ultrasuper.

By: Benny

Benny — Mon, 23 Mar 2009 16:54:38 +0000

//RE: Oh, and a third thing, just a minor thing: Black/white used to have an saturation slider. It’s gone in CS4 :(
//
You have it by clicking on the tint color square. That turns on a “select target color” color picker box with all possible colors – tick the “s” radio button.

By: Barbara Reiner

Barbara Reiner — Mon, 23 Mar 2009 12:01:17 +0000

Reply to To Dr. Watson:
Your comment does not seem to take into consideration the dynamics of bell curve-normal probability distribution. Coincindentally, this graph looks just like a properly exposed photo in levels.
Between “newbies” and pre-press experts there is a wide distribution of PSCS users who like the new Adjustments panel. I am one of them and consider myself a PS expert…I tutor others.
I totally disagree with this statement:
I think needs of professionals need to trump “discoverability” for newbies.
I am all for redefining the phrase Photoshop professional and inviting “newbies” into the inner sanctum.