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	<title>Comments on: Do you care about PNG-8 with transparency?</title>
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	<link>http://blogs.adobe.com/jnack/2010/08/do-you-care-about-png-8-with-transparency.html</link>
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	<lastBuildDate>Mon, 20 May 2013 20:43:18 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Carl Erling</title>
		<link>http://blogs.adobe.com/jnack/2010/08/do-you-care-about-png-8-with-transparency.html#comment-77849</link>
		<dc:creator>Carl Erling</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 May 2013 21:28:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.adobe.com/jnack/?p=2581#comment-77849</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Funny question. Simple and obvious answer: YES.
And also for AI / Save for Web!!!

Fireworks is not an option (any more). I share DeeKay&#039;s opinion from 2 comments above.

Ask Google how they like slow loading websites these days.

Unbelievable, that question was asked in 2010 and in 2013 we still need 3rd party converters like ImageAlpha to make small transparent PNGs for the web. That complicates our web development workflow.

I was fearing that the new Adobe Cloud System could slow down the CS development, including DW, AI and PS, since there are not paid upgrades any more that bring fresh money but now the money comes automatically, month by month. 
I hope you prove me wrong. :-)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Funny question. Simple and obvious answer: YES.<br />
And also for AI / Save for Web!!!</p>
<p>Fireworks is not an option (any more). I share DeeKay&#8217;s opinion from 2 comments above.</p>
<p>Ask Google how they like slow loading websites these days.</p>
<p>Unbelievable, that question was asked in 2010 and in 2013 we still need 3rd party converters like ImageAlpha to make small transparent PNGs for the web. That complicates our web development workflow.</p>
<p>I was fearing that the new Adobe Cloud System could slow down the CS development, including DW, AI and PS, since there are not paid upgrades any more that bring fresh money but now the money comes automatically, month by month.<br />
I hope you prove me wrong. :-)</p>
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		<title>By: Chris Converse</title>
		<link>http://blogs.adobe.com/jnack/2010/08/do-you-care-about-png-8-with-transparency.html#comment-65395</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Converse</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Feb 2013 18:06:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.adobe.com/jnack/?p=2581#comment-65395</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[i have been using imagealpha (macintosh) to convert photoshop-png24 to variable transparent png8 -- it works great, and really helps with tools like Edge Animate, iBooks author, and general jQuery work - where manipulating image elements lags with larger images (some images can be compressed by 78%! -- and, there are other tools out there for both platforms) -- http://pngmini.com]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>i have been using imagealpha (macintosh) to convert photoshop-png24 to variable transparent png8 &#8212; it works great, and really helps with tools like Edge Animate, iBooks author, and general jQuery work &#8211; where manipulating image elements lags with larger images (some images can be compressed by 78%! &#8212; and, there are other tools out there for both platforms) &#8212; <a href="http://pngmini.com" rel="nofollow">http://pngmini.com</a></p>
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		<title>By: DeeKay</title>
		<link>http://blogs.adobe.com/jnack/2010/08/do-you-care-about-png-8-with-transparency.html#comment-65385</link>
		<dc:creator>DeeKay</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Feb 2013 14:01:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.adobe.com/jnack/?p=2581#comment-65385</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The worst thing about all this is that Fireworks, which does officially support PNG8 with Alpha, sucks so much. Not only does it seriously lack in the dither-options department, its choice of palette colors also remains a complete mystery (it seems to freely choose between faking transparency through dithering and actual transparency). It is also incapable of correctly saving without alteration a hand-prepared PNG32 that only has 256 colors (=16 colors with 16 transparency levels).

Come on, Adobe! PNG8 with Alpha is NOT Rocket science! I can do it by hand, although it&#039;s work intensive (and Fireworks fails, like mentioned!). You simply dither Alpha in X levels and the Picture in Y colors, while X*Y may never exceed 256. It just needs one extra pulldown for Transparency levels (max. colors and transparency levels adjust whenever one of the other values is adjusted!), three new options for Alphachannel-Dither in the Transparency pulldown (error diffusion, pattern, noise) and maybe an extra slider for the strength of the alphachannel-dither, so you can adjust that separately from the picture dithering. Ofcourse, the color picker would need an extra transparency slider, too, to be able to manually adjust that per color in the palette area!...]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The worst thing about all this is that Fireworks, which does officially support PNG8 with Alpha, sucks so much. Not only does it seriously lack in the dither-options department, its choice of palette colors also remains a complete mystery (it seems to freely choose between faking transparency through dithering and actual transparency). It is also incapable of correctly saving without alteration a hand-prepared PNG32 that only has 256 colors (=16 colors with 16 transparency levels).</p>
<p>Come on, Adobe! PNG8 with Alpha is NOT Rocket science! I can do it by hand, although it&#8217;s work intensive (and Fireworks fails, like mentioned!). You simply dither Alpha in X levels and the Picture in Y colors, while X*Y may never exceed 256. It just needs one extra pulldown for Transparency levels (max. colors and transparency levels adjust whenever one of the other values is adjusted!), three new options for Alphachannel-Dither in the Transparency pulldown (error diffusion, pattern, noise) and maybe an extra slider for the strength of the alphachannel-dither, so you can adjust that separately from the picture dithering. Ofcourse, the color picker would need an extra transparency slider, too, to be able to manually adjust that per color in the palette area!&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Garconis</title>
		<link>http://blogs.adobe.com/jnack/2010/08/do-you-care-about-png-8-with-transparency.html#comment-52355</link>
		<dc:creator>Garconis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Nov 2012 20:47:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.adobe.com/jnack/?p=2581#comment-52355</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I was just disappointed to find that when trying to output a PNG-8 image with transparency, it didn&#039;t let me do it the same way a normal PNG would work. My only option now is an oversized PNG file. :( Thanks CS6! (NOT!)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was just disappointed to find that when trying to output a PNG-8 image with transparency, it didn&#8217;t let me do it the same way a normal PNG would work. My only option now is an oversized PNG file. :( Thanks CS6! (NOT!)</p>
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		<title>By: Chris Converse</title>
		<link>http://blogs.adobe.com/jnack/2010/08/do-you-care-about-png-8-with-transparency.html#comment-52165</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Converse</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 Nov 2012 21:10:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.adobe.com/jnack/?p=2581#comment-52165</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[What kills me is that Creative Suite 2 had this all figured out. ImageReady and GoLive were years ahead of their time... 7 to be precise. GoLive&#039;s SMIL and SVG animation editor (which is *finally* being re-imagined in Edge Animate) and ImageReady&#039;s multi-slice sets, roundtrip with Photoshop and pixel-based variable capabilities remain **unmatched** by anything the unfortunate Macromedia acquisition has ever provided us faithful Adobe customers with.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What kills me is that Creative Suite 2 had this all figured out. ImageReady and GoLive were years ahead of their time&#8230; 7 to be precise. GoLive&#8217;s SMIL and SVG animation editor (which is *finally* being re-imagined in Edge Animate) and ImageReady&#8217;s multi-slice sets, roundtrip with Photoshop and pixel-based variable capabilities remain **unmatched** by anything the unfortunate Macromedia acquisition has ever provided us faithful Adobe customers with.</p>
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		<title>By: matsaukeo</title>
		<link>http://blogs.adobe.com/jnack/2010/08/do-you-care-about-png-8-with-transparency.html#comment-50900</link>
		<dc:creator>matsaukeo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Oct 2012 13:57:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.adobe.com/jnack/?p=2581#comment-50900</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Finally! Every 12 months or so for the past 8 years I search for a way of doing this through photoshop. I normally save the file as a PSD and then have to re-open in fireworks. This would save me a massive amount of time.

Two reasons why semi transparency is essential to me.

1) File size is way lower than 32bit. - Sometimes the image has too much banding to be a png8 but I need to decide that on a per use basis.

2) Although ie6 ignores the semi transparency completely, it at least looks better than they grey box around png32. On things like icons this is what I&#039;d prefer. 

Please, please please add this support to the save for web.

Thanks]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Finally! Every 12 months or so for the past 8 years I search for a way of doing this through photoshop. I normally save the file as a PSD and then have to re-open in fireworks. This would save me a massive amount of time.</p>
<p>Two reasons why semi transparency is essential to me.</p>
<p>1) File size is way lower than 32bit. &#8211; Sometimes the image has too much banding to be a png8 but I need to decide that on a per use basis.</p>
<p>2) Although ie6 ignores the semi transparency completely, it at least looks better than they grey box around png32. On things like icons this is what I&#8217;d prefer. </p>
<p>Please, please please add this support to the save for web.</p>
<p>Thanks</p>
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		<title>By: Matt Wagner</title>
		<link>http://blogs.adobe.com/jnack/2010/08/do-you-care-about-png-8-with-transparency.html#comment-50320</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt Wagner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Oct 2012 18:55:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.adobe.com/jnack/?p=2581#comment-50320</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Just wanted to add my voice, and my perspective, to the clamor for this feature.

I think the other comments on this post more than suffice to extoll the advantages of bringing full-transparency to the PNG-8 format in PhotoShop/ImageReady in terms of the intrinsic virtues of the format itself - I&#039;d even go as far as saying it&#039;s Adobe&#039;s responsibility to web standards to promote the use of this format as a means of lightening the bandwidth load for millions of websites across the world.

The simplest example I can think of as a use-case that would benefit, in particular on mobile sites, is that of a round button image on a background containing a horizontal stripe.  The transparency tool currently available in ImageReady would simply not accommodate saving the button in PNG-8 format with adequate alpha transparency to account for the stripe - so a PNG-24 image has to be created instead or, worse, the stripe has to be built into the button. How 1997!

Taking therefore both the advantages of the format and the applications as self-evident, I&#039;d like to add a note about workflow to address the question of &quot;how I&#039;d use it/why it&#039;s important for it to be a part of PhotoShop:&quot; as more and more designers board the &quot;web development&quot; teams at mainstream companies, they are taking on more of the web image optimization responsibilities that &quot;webmasters&quot;/developers and hackers used to claim as their speciality/dark art.

With this simple fact in mind concerning the evolution of workflows, simplifying the process of image development is of renewed importance: it is not in the typical purview of designers to fiddle with tools that interfere with the creative process itself, and given that PS/AI are the de facto standards for asset creation, it seems critical that their export tool, ImageReady, be up to snuff when it comes to producing the best, most optimized renditions of their art.  The designers I&#039;ve worked with would easily adopt a checklist of settings to use in exporting images from their creation tool; it&#039;s a much harder sell for me to teach them an entirely new tool such as Fireworks only to meet a goal specific to my agenda as &quot;webmaster&quot; overseeing site performance.  It&#039;s not that they couldn&#039;t learn it, it&#039;s that it complicates the process.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just wanted to add my voice, and my perspective, to the clamor for this feature.</p>
<p>I think the other comments on this post more than suffice to extoll the advantages of bringing full-transparency to the PNG-8 format in PhotoShop/ImageReady in terms of the intrinsic virtues of the format itself &#8211; I&#8217;d even go as far as saying it&#8217;s Adobe&#8217;s responsibility to web standards to promote the use of this format as a means of lightening the bandwidth load for millions of websites across the world.</p>
<p>The simplest example I can think of as a use-case that would benefit, in particular on mobile sites, is that of a round button image on a background containing a horizontal stripe.  The transparency tool currently available in ImageReady would simply not accommodate saving the button in PNG-8 format with adequate alpha transparency to account for the stripe &#8211; so a PNG-24 image has to be created instead or, worse, the stripe has to be built into the button. How 1997!</p>
<p>Taking therefore both the advantages of the format and the applications as self-evident, I&#8217;d like to add a note about workflow to address the question of &#8220;how I&#8217;d use it/why it&#8217;s important for it to be a part of PhotoShop:&#8221; as more and more designers board the &#8220;web development&#8221; teams at mainstream companies, they are taking on more of the web image optimization responsibilities that &#8220;webmasters&#8221;/developers and hackers used to claim as their speciality/dark art.</p>
<p>With this simple fact in mind concerning the evolution of workflows, simplifying the process of image development is of renewed importance: it is not in the typical purview of designers to fiddle with tools that interfere with the creative process itself, and given that PS/AI are the de facto standards for asset creation, it seems critical that their export tool, ImageReady, be up to snuff when it comes to producing the best, most optimized renditions of their art.  The designers I&#8217;ve worked with would easily adopt a checklist of settings to use in exporting images from their creation tool; it&#8217;s a much harder sell for me to teach them an entirely new tool such as Fireworks only to meet a goal specific to my agenda as &#8220;webmaster&#8221; overseeing site performance.  It&#8217;s not that they couldn&#8217;t learn it, it&#8217;s that it complicates the process.</p>
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		<title>By: DeeKay</title>
		<link>http://blogs.adobe.com/jnack/2010/08/do-you-care-about-png-8-with-transparency.html#comment-49192</link>
		<dc:creator>DeeKay</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Sep 2012 14:19:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.adobe.com/jnack/?p=2581#comment-49192</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[What kinda question is that? OFCOURSE we need it! Have you ever saved anything bigger than a button in PNG24 just because you needed the alphachannel? Being lossless, the files quickly become huge! And if we did not care for size, why would we need the &#039;save for web&#039; feature in the first place?? P.S.: The tRNS chunk feature is in the original v1.0 spec - from 1996!! Get your act together, Adobe, this is simply embarassing...]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What kinda question is that? OFCOURSE we need it! Have you ever saved anything bigger than a button in PNG24 just because you needed the alphachannel? Being lossless, the files quickly become huge! And if we did not care for size, why would we need the &#8216;save for web&#8217; feature in the first place?? P.S.: The tRNS chunk feature is in the original v1.0 spec &#8211; from 1996!! Get your act together, Adobe, this is simply embarassing&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Don Quinn</title>
		<link>http://blogs.adobe.com/jnack/2010/08/do-you-care-about-png-8-with-transparency.html#comment-46776</link>
		<dc:creator>Don Quinn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Jun 2012 13:05:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.adobe.com/jnack/?p=2581#comment-46776</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Just noting that PS CS6 did not add this feature. 

CS9 maybe?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just noting that PS CS6 did not add this feature. </p>
<p>CS9 maybe?</p>
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		<title>By: Yang shaobo</title>
		<link>http://blogs.adobe.com/jnack/2010/08/do-you-care-about-png-8-with-transparency.html#comment-41786</link>
		<dc:creator>Yang shaobo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Feb 2012 08:28:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.adobe.com/jnack/?p=2581#comment-41786</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[As a web designer, Yes We Need!!!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As a web designer, Yes We Need!!!</p>
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		<title>By: Felix Buenemann</title>
		<link>http://blogs.adobe.com/jnack/2010/08/do-you-care-about-png-8-with-transparency.html#comment-40691</link>
		<dc:creator>Felix Buenemann</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Jan 2012 13:38:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.adobe.com/jnack/?p=2581#comment-40691</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[This has been THE feature missing from Photoshop&#039;s Save for Web dialog. PNG8+alpha is by far the most useful web graphics format besides jpeg. Only in rare cases you need the increased alpha resolution and color range of PNG32.
It not only saves a lot on filesize it also helps decrease memory usage, which is very important for todays memory limited mobile devices.
I currently use a combination of several commandline utilities via the png8 script to generate my 8-Bit+alpha PNGs from 32bpp files.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This has been THE feature missing from Photoshop&#8217;s Save for Web dialog. PNG8+alpha is by far the most useful web graphics format besides jpeg. Only in rare cases you need the increased alpha resolution and color range of PNG32.<br />
It not only saves a lot on filesize it also helps decrease memory usage, which is very important for todays memory limited mobile devices.<br />
I currently use a combination of several commandline utilities via the png8 script to generate my 8-Bit+alpha PNGs from 32bpp files.</p>
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		<title>By: Christopher Anderton</title>
		<link>http://blogs.adobe.com/jnack/2010/08/do-you-care-about-png-8-with-transparency.html#comment-38750</link>
		<dc:creator>Christopher Anderton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Nov 2011 07:12:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.adobe.com/jnack/?p=2581#comment-38750</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I use Photoshop. I need 8-bits PNG with full alpha.  There is no discussion. Just do it! ;-)

While waiting i use this little open source app called ImageAlpha (Mac) (Google it) that converts 24-bits PNGs with alpha to 8-bits PNG with alpha with amazing results. Saving almost 70-80% on every file i drop on it.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I use Photoshop. I need 8-bits PNG with full alpha.  There is no discussion. Just do it! ;-)</p>
<p>While waiting i use this little open source app called ImageAlpha (Mac) (Google it) that converts 24-bits PNGs with alpha to 8-bits PNG with alpha with amazing results. Saving almost 70-80% on every file i drop on it.</p>
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		<title>By: Rich Morey</title>
		<link>http://blogs.adobe.com/jnack/2010/08/do-you-care-about-png-8-with-transparency.html#comment-38015</link>
		<dc:creator>Rich Morey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Oct 2011 16:06:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.adobe.com/jnack/?p=2581#comment-38015</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Just starting to learn JQuery Mobile and the file format for icons it wants is PNG-8 with transparency. Would love to be able to do this with Photoshop.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just starting to learn JQuery Mobile and the file format for icons it wants is PNG-8 with transparency. Would love to be able to do this with Photoshop.</p>
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		<title>By: Donna</title>
		<link>http://blogs.adobe.com/jnack/2010/08/do-you-care-about-png-8-with-transparency.html#comment-37588</link>
		<dc:creator>Donna</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Sep 2011 21:07:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.adobe.com/jnack/?p=2581#comment-37588</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#039;m developing more graphicly interesting sites these days, and the designers I work with love to use transparent overlays. They look great, and with PNG-8 are lightweight. It&#039;s annoying to have to fire up Fireworks for them, and inconceivable that Adobe&#039;s extremely expensive flagship product (Photoshop) still doesn&#039;t support PNG-8 with alpha transparency.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m developing more graphicly interesting sites these days, and the designers I work with love to use transparent overlays. They look great, and with PNG-8 are lightweight. It&#8217;s annoying to have to fire up Fireworks for them, and inconceivable that Adobe&#8217;s extremely expensive flagship product (Photoshop) still doesn&#8217;t support PNG-8 with alpha transparency.</p>
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		<title>By: Mattyk</title>
		<link>http://blogs.adobe.com/jnack/2010/08/do-you-care-about-png-8-with-transparency.html#comment-36996</link>
		<dc:creator>Mattyk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Sep 2011 11:21:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.adobe.com/jnack/?p=2581#comment-36996</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Every 6 months or so I have a little search on the web for photoshop plugins. Or even a free alternative to fireworks. Can&#039;t believe that at CS5 photoshop still hasn&#039;t fixed this.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Every 6 months or so I have a little search on the web for photoshop plugins. Or even a free alternative to fireworks. Can&#8217;t believe that at CS5 photoshop still hasn&#8217;t fixed this.</p>
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