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	<title>Comments on: Adobe&#8217;s enhancing WebKit for better typography</title>
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	<link>http://blogs.adobe.com/jnack/2010/11/adobes-enhancing-webkit-for-better-typography.html</link>
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		<title>By: ftvs</title>
		<link>http://blogs.adobe.com/jnack/2010/11/adobes-enhancing-webkit-for-better-typography.html#comment-35637</link>
		<dc:creator>ftvs</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 26 Jun 2011 12:27:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.adobe.com/jnack/?p=3108#comment-35637</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Curious as to how this will interact with multi-column:
http://www.w3.org/TR/css3-multicol/
https://developer.mozilla.org/en/CSS3_Columns

as this seems to be similar:
http://www.adobe.com/devnet/html5/articles/css3-regions.html#articlecontentAdobe_numberedheader

Demo of CSS3 columns:(WebKit/Gecko):
http://weblogs.mozillazine.org/roc/

No need to reply, consider this a drive-by comment.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Curious as to how this will interact with multi-column:<br />
<a href="http://www.w3.org/TR/css3-multicol/" rel="nofollow">http://www.w3.org/TR/css3-multicol/</a><br />
<a href="https://developer.mozilla.org/en/CSS3_Columns" rel="nofollow">https://developer.mozilla.org/en/CSS3_Columns</a></p>
<p>as this seems to be similar:<br />
<a href="http://www.adobe.com/devnet/html5/articles/css3-regions.html#articlecontentAdobe_numberedheader" rel="nofollow">http://www.adobe.com/devnet/html5/articles/css3-regions.html#articlecontentAdobe_numberedheader</a></p>
<p>Demo of CSS3 columns:(WebKit/Gecko):<br />
<a href="http://weblogs.mozillazine.org/roc/" rel="nofollow">http://weblogs.mozillazine.org/roc/</a></p>
<p>No need to reply, consider this a drive-by comment.</p>
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		<title>By: Simon Bérubé</title>
		<link>http://blogs.adobe.com/jnack/2010/11/adobes-enhancing-webkit-for-better-typography.html#comment-32794</link>
		<dc:creator>Simon Bérubé</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Feb 2011 01:01:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.adobe.com/jnack/?p=3108#comment-32794</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I agree. Balance ragged lines seriously needs a place in CSS3. It&#039;s unfortunate that there haven&#039;t been more requests for the feature to be worked into CSS. I&#039;m surprised that there haven&#039;t been more discussion about it. My post from almost two years ago is currently first on a Google search for &quot;balance ragged lines css.&quot;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree. Balance ragged lines seriously needs a place in CSS3. It&#8217;s unfortunate that there haven&#8217;t been more requests for the feature to be worked into CSS. I&#8217;m surprised that there haven&#8217;t been more discussion about it. My post from almost two years ago is currently first on a Google search for &#8220;balance ragged lines css.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Eric</title>
		<link>http://blogs.adobe.com/jnack/2010/11/adobes-enhancing-webkit-for-better-typography.html#comment-24484</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Nov 2010 17:46:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.adobe.com/jnack/?p=3108#comment-24484</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Open to dialog on your lengthy posts as long as it is kept to 140 characters or less and in a different venue? Sorry but it&#039;s a lot easier to just read a different blog.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Open to dialog on your lengthy posts as long as it is kept to 140 characters or less and in a different venue? Sorry but it&#8217;s a lot easier to just read a different blog.</p>
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		<title>By: Iain Anderson</title>
		<link>http://blogs.adobe.com/jnack/2010/11/adobes-enhancing-webkit-for-better-typography.html#comment-24149</link>
		<dc:creator>Iain Anderson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Nov 2010 20:56:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.adobe.com/jnack/?p=3108#comment-24149</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Great to see some better typography control coming to browsers. While I would rather see a browser provide InDesign-like controls such as &quot;balance ragged lines&quot; or automatic tracking and word-spacing rules to make justified text look better, this stuff does make for a good demo. 

Thanks for contributing better typography smarts to WebKit.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great to see some better typography control coming to browsers. While I would rather see a browser provide InDesign-like controls such as &#8220;balance ragged lines&#8221; or automatic tracking and word-spacing rules to make justified text look better, this stuff does make for a good demo. </p>
<p>Thanks for contributing better typography smarts to WebKit.</p>
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		<title>By: virgil</title>
		<link>http://blogs.adobe.com/jnack/2010/11/adobes-enhancing-webkit-for-better-typography.html#comment-24055</link>
		<dc:creator>virgil</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Nov 2010 06:36:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.adobe.com/jnack/?p=3108#comment-24055</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[It&#039;s a DEMO, it&#039;s supposed to have the &quot;wow&quot; factor. Incidentally, that article in the demo includes Adobe&#039;s own glyph shaping&amp;rendering solution, with things like stem darkening, subpixel rendering, linear blending of text. If you show it side-by-side with the &quot;webkit rendering&quot;, it&#039;s relatively obvious that our text looks better.
But guess what.... from all the people who see the demo live (because you can&#039;t see this kind of text improvements on youtube) - nobody notices if we don&#039;t explicitly show side-by-side text comparison. And even then, it&#039;s a &quot;meh, yeah, you&#039;re right, it does look slightly better&quot;.
Same for good justification - it&#039;s computationally expensive. If we put better justification in a demo (we tried), the animation doesn&#039;t look &quot;cool&quot;, it&#039;s slower and the picture lags behind your finger. Maybe it wouldn&#039;t matter in real-life because you don&#039;t need to reflow text 10 times/second... but it makes a huge difference in a demo. You really have to remember it&#039;s a demo - it&#039;s not something that Adobe sells to publishers, today.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s a DEMO, it&#8217;s supposed to have the &#8220;wow&#8221; factor. Incidentally, that article in the demo includes Adobe&#8217;s own glyph shaping&amp;rendering solution, with things like stem darkening, subpixel rendering, linear blending of text. If you show it side-by-side with the &#8220;webkit rendering&#8221;, it&#8217;s relatively obvious that our text looks better.<br />
But guess what&#8230;. from all the people who see the demo live (because you can&#8217;t see this kind of text improvements on youtube) &#8211; nobody notices if we don&#8217;t explicitly show side-by-side text comparison. And even then, it&#8217;s a &#8220;meh, yeah, you&#8217;re right, it does look slightly better&#8221;.<br />
Same for good justification &#8211; it&#8217;s computationally expensive. If we put better justification in a demo (we tried), the animation doesn&#8217;t look &#8220;cool&#8221;, it&#8217;s slower and the picture lags behind your finger. Maybe it wouldn&#8217;t matter in real-life because you don&#8217;t need to reflow text 10 times/second&#8230; but it makes a huge difference in a demo. You really have to remember it&#8217;s a demo &#8211; it&#8217;s not something that Adobe sells to publishers, today.</p>
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		<title>By: Eric</title>
		<link>http://blogs.adobe.com/jnack/2010/11/adobes-enhancing-webkit-for-better-typography.html#comment-24042</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Nov 2010 01:12:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.adobe.com/jnack/?p=3108#comment-24042</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Haven&#039;t we had enough of the vitriol for one Autumn? The election&#039;s over! Jerry Brown won! Get over it.

Oh wait, Adobe&#039;s the bag guy eh? I have my issues with Adobe (they really screwed me over recently by changing the rules about qualifying for educational software and then didn&#039;t allow me to return the software unused) but their efforts to make the industries they serve more productive are appreciated by this graphics professional. (Let&#039;s not even get into Acrobat Pro being out of sync with the creative suites.) I bring these things up to show I&#039;m not Adobe sycophant.

Anyway, personal attacks against John Nack are uncalled for. He&#039;s been a real gentleman for years as he maintains this blog and keeps us informed on what&#039;s up with our favorite software tools for our jobs. I&#039;d hate to see this devolve into such an ugly mess that he has to go back to moderating comments and even possibly deleting the worst of them.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Haven&#8217;t we had enough of the vitriol for one Autumn? The election&#8217;s over! Jerry Brown won! Get over it.</p>
<p>Oh wait, Adobe&#8217;s the bag guy eh? I have my issues with Adobe (they really screwed me over recently by changing the rules about qualifying for educational software and then didn&#8217;t allow me to return the software unused) but their efforts to make the industries they serve more productive are appreciated by this graphics professional. (Let&#8217;s not even get into Acrobat Pro being out of sync with the creative suites.) I bring these things up to show I&#8217;m not Adobe sycophant.</p>
<p>Anyway, personal attacks against John Nack are uncalled for. He&#8217;s been a real gentleman for years as he maintains this blog and keeps us informed on what&#8217;s up with our favorite software tools for our jobs. I&#8217;d hate to see this devolve into such an ugly mess that he has to go back to moderating comments and even possibly deleting the worst of them.</p>
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		<title>By: imajez</title>
		<link>http://blogs.adobe.com/jnack/2010/11/adobes-enhancing-webkit-for-better-typography.html#comment-24038</link>
		<dc:creator>imajez</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Nov 2010 00:45:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.adobe.com/jnack/?p=3108#comment-24038</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[You are still missing the point. It is a demo of one aspect of an unfinished work in progress. It is also not a edict of how to use said feature, just a demo of what it can currently do. If you do use it, I&#039;m assuming giraffes will not be compulsory either as that also seems to have upset you too for some reason.

As for getting justification sorted, I&#039;m sure each browser will decide to interpret what ever justification algorithm/engine is used in its own individual way to make it look different in every browser anyway. Though I&#039;m sure that will still be Adobe&#039;s fault too, judging by the sort of comments you see here and elsewhere.
One can also be impressed by demos like this, even if it is obvious that the justification still needs work and the presentation is lacking polish.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You are still missing the point. It is a demo of one aspect of an unfinished work in progress. It is also not a edict of how to use said feature, just a demo of what it can currently do. If you do use it, I&#8217;m assuming giraffes will not be compulsory either as that also seems to have upset you too for some reason.</p>
<p>As for getting justification sorted, I&#8217;m sure each browser will decide to interpret what ever justification algorithm/engine is used in its own individual way to make it look different in every browser anyway. Though I&#8217;m sure that will still be Adobe&#8217;s fault too, judging by the sort of comments you see here and elsewhere.<br />
One can also be impressed by demos like this, even if it is obvious that the justification still needs work and the presentation is lacking polish.</p>
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		<title>By: Paul Gubbay</title>
		<link>http://blogs.adobe.com/jnack/2010/11/adobes-enhancing-webkit-for-better-typography.html#comment-24015</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul Gubbay</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Nov 2010 15:21:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.adobe.com/jnack/?p=3108#comment-24015</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[We&#039;re working with Google to leverage their Webkit contribution knowledge and accelerate integration with a Browser such as Chrome.  This work becomes really useful when all Browsers support it as part of the Standard.  It will take some time to get there and I&#039;m sure that the approach will be modified based on feedback but we&#039;re committed to making this work.

We&#039;ll also be looking at JS libraries to fill in the gaps when Browsers are slower to adopt.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We&#8217;re working with Google to leverage their Webkit contribution knowledge and accelerate integration with a Browser such as Chrome.  This work becomes really useful when all Browsers support it as part of the Standard.  It will take some time to get there and I&#8217;m sure that the approach will be modified based on feedback but we&#8217;re committed to making this work.</p>
<p>We&#8217;ll also be looking at JS libraries to fill in the gaps when Browsers are slower to adopt.</p>
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		<title>By: Andreas Kuckartz</title>
		<link>http://blogs.adobe.com/jnack/2010/11/adobes-enhancing-webkit-for-better-typography.html#comment-24008</link>
		<dc:creator>Andreas Kuckartz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Nov 2010 07:18:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.adobe.com/jnack/?p=3108#comment-24008</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[When I went to the page behind &quot;Adobe’s new tablet publishing solution&quot; there was an attempt to get me to download Windows malware.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When I went to the page behind &#8220;Adobe’s new tablet publishing solution&#8221; there was an attempt to get me to download Windows malware.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Phil Brown</title>
		<link>http://blogs.adobe.com/jnack/2010/11/adobes-enhancing-webkit-for-better-typography.html#comment-24004</link>
		<dc:creator>Phil Brown</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Nov 2010 23:12:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.adobe.com/jnack/?p=3108#comment-24004</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Which HTML5 standard should that fallback be to?

Also, it views just fine on my iPhone and iPad, so YouTube is deliverying the content just fine.  Your device or browser might suck, though.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Which HTML5 standard should that fallback be to?</p>
<p>Also, it views just fine on my iPhone and iPad, so YouTube is deliverying the content just fine.  Your device or browser might suck, though.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Kyle Wilkinson</title>
		<link>http://blogs.adobe.com/jnack/2010/11/adobes-enhancing-webkit-for-better-typography.html#comment-24003</link>
		<dc:creator>Kyle Wilkinson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Nov 2010 22:48:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.adobe.com/jnack/?p=3108#comment-24003</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[To John: Looking at your HTML, you didn&#039;t use YouTube&#039;s new iframe embed code to embed the video. Without this, I don&#039;t think YouTube will serve up the video in anything but Flash.  Perhaps it&#039;s just your web dev skills that suck.

&lt;i&gt;[Perhaps.  I naively copy &amp; paste the markup that Google/YouTube give me.  If their iFrame solution is great, why don&#039;t they give it to me, as Vimeo does?  --J.]&lt;/i&gt; 

Normally, I wouldn&#039;t make a comment like this, but I&#039;m appalled at your level of professionalism in the comments.

&lt;i&gt;[Sorry to let you down.  --J.]&lt;/i&gt; ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To John: Looking at your HTML, you didn&#8217;t use YouTube&#8217;s new iframe embed code to embed the video. Without this, I don&#8217;t think YouTube will serve up the video in anything but Flash.  Perhaps it&#8217;s just your web dev skills that suck.</p>
<p><i>[Perhaps.  I naively copy &amp; paste the markup that Google/YouTube give me.  If their iFrame solution is great, why don't they give it to me, as Vimeo does?  --J.]</i> </p>
<p>Normally, I wouldn&#8217;t make a comment like this, but I&#8217;m appalled at your level of professionalism in the comments.</p>
<p><i>[Sorry to let you down.  --J.]</i> </p>
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		<title>By: Alan Hogan</title>
		<link>http://blogs.adobe.com/jnack/2010/11/adobes-enhancing-webkit-for-better-typography.html#comment-24001</link>
		<dc:creator>Alan Hogan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Nov 2010 22:23:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.adobe.com/jnack/?p=3108#comment-24001</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Please stop publishing videos without HTML5 fallback.  I just see a big empty space where what I’m assuming a video goes.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Please stop publishing videos without HTML5 fallback.  I just see a big empty space where what I’m assuming a video goes.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Sean Kerwin</title>
		<link>http://blogs.adobe.com/jnack/2010/11/adobes-enhancing-webkit-for-better-typography.html#comment-23999</link>
		<dc:creator>Sean Kerwin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Nov 2010 21:05:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.adobe.com/jnack/?p=3108#comment-23999</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[With respect, an object/embed with type &#039;application/x-shockwave-flash&#039; with a src URI that returns content-type &#039;application/x-shockwave-flash&#039; sure sounds a lot like &#039;in Flash&#039; to me.

It isn&#039;t the responsibility of the browsing agent to rewrite the page to remove an explicit dependency on the Flash plugin.  The fact that some browsing agents have been forced to do so is a large part of why many people consider non-Flash video playback standards to be so important.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>With respect, an object/embed with type &#8216;application/x-shockwave-flash&#8217; with a src URI that returns content-type &#8216;application/x-shockwave-flash&#8217; sure sounds a lot like &#8216;in Flash&#8217; to me.</p>
<p>It isn&#8217;t the responsibility of the browsing agent to rewrite the page to remove an explicit dependency on the Flash plugin.  The fact that some browsing agents have been forced to do so is a large part of why many people consider non-Flash video playback standards to be so important.</p>
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		<title>By: Thibaut Sailly</title>
		<link>http://blogs.adobe.com/jnack/2010/11/adobes-enhancing-webkit-for-better-typography.html#comment-23998</link>
		<dc:creator>Thibaut Sailly</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Nov 2010 21:00:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.adobe.com/jnack/?p=3108#comment-23998</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Eric, this is not weakness, it&#039;s just that twitter is fine for this now, and it allows me to spend more time off the computer. You can reach me here if you bother to: @thibautsailly.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Eric, this is not weakness, it&#8217;s just that twitter is fine for this now, and it allows me to spend more time off the computer. You can reach me here if you bother to: @thibautsailly.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Thibaut Sailly</title>
		<link>http://blogs.adobe.com/jnack/2010/11/adobes-enhancing-webkit-for-better-typography.html#comment-23997</link>
		<dc:creator>Thibaut Sailly</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Nov 2010 20:57:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.adobe.com/jnack/?p=3108#comment-23997</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hello there,

sorry for the trouble I seem to cause with my blog post.

All I wanted to say, and said, was :

1. Good on Adobe to get on the webkit train and actively making progress to enhance it. And congratulations for this technical achievement.

2. The typography on this example doesn&#039;t allow a basic and comfortable reading experience, but features a style effect for its own purpose. To the discomfort of the reader, who&#039;s the one we should care about first and foremost.
Why doesn&#039;t the effect work ? Not because this call out feature is a work in progress, but because you need a very good justification engine to perform it well. All I&#039;m suggesting is : get the brains on the justification effort, and once and only then this foundation layer is fixed, bring the call out. I know it&#039;s an effort representing thousands of man hours because you have to basically redo everything for each language, but if we want to get good call outs, we have to get through this. Otherwise it&#039;s just lipstick on a pig. If we want to make the web a better place, we should resist to the urge to implement &quot;press like&quot; features for show off purposes, and aim the efforts at solving basic legibility problems.

3. A little more care could have gone into the making of the demo of this I&#039;m-not-that-dumb-thank-you work in progress project: get a better lighting condition and the right white balance, stabilize the phone on a table and the camera on whatever&#039;s handy. Get a Canon 5D (shouldn&#039;t be hard to find at Adobe) to shoot for an even better image quality. That&#039;s it. Not much effort nor time could bump the quality of what represents hours of brilliant peoples work on the web. A little more care.
As for the Apple reference, come on. You couldn&#039;t find anything else than the giraffe to demonstrate the performance of this feature? I&#039;m not opposing Apple to you, you understood it this way. I could have added that the justification support in iBooks sucks just as much, and that it shouldn&#039;t be an option to display html or epub text this way today. You&#039;re both on the same boat to this regard.

Also, the tone of my post seems to have irritate some of you. Let me just say that I was pissed. But more by a way of doing things - going for the spectacular while omitting more essential but discreet issues - than by the people involved in this project, you or Paul and his team. A reader cared to write to me his disappointment regarding this and said I sounded like an 11 years old child. Well, 11 years ago I wouldn&#039;t have been able to write like this in english because it&#039;s not my mother tongue. So indeed, I&#039;m an 11 y.o. boy, there you go. Finding the right words has become easier, but some progress and fine tuning has to be made regarding the tone.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hello there,</p>
<p>sorry for the trouble I seem to cause with my blog post.</p>
<p>All I wanted to say, and said, was :</p>
<p>1. Good on Adobe to get on the webkit train and actively making progress to enhance it. And congratulations for this technical achievement.</p>
<p>2. The typography on this example doesn&#8217;t allow a basic and comfortable reading experience, but features a style effect for its own purpose. To the discomfort of the reader, who&#8217;s the one we should care about first and foremost.<br />
Why doesn&#8217;t the effect work ? Not because this call out feature is a work in progress, but because you need a very good justification engine to perform it well. All I&#8217;m suggesting is : get the brains on the justification effort, and once and only then this foundation layer is fixed, bring the call out. I know it&#8217;s an effort representing thousands of man hours because you have to basically redo everything for each language, but if we want to get good call outs, we have to get through this. Otherwise it&#8217;s just lipstick on a pig. If we want to make the web a better place, we should resist to the urge to implement &#8220;press like&#8221; features for show off purposes, and aim the efforts at solving basic legibility problems.</p>
<p>3. A little more care could have gone into the making of the demo of this I&#8217;m-not-that-dumb-thank-you work in progress project: get a better lighting condition and the right white balance, stabilize the phone on a table and the camera on whatever&#8217;s handy. Get a Canon 5D (shouldn&#8217;t be hard to find at Adobe) to shoot for an even better image quality. That&#8217;s it. Not much effort nor time could bump the quality of what represents hours of brilliant peoples work on the web. A little more care.<br />
As for the Apple reference, come on. You couldn&#8217;t find anything else than the giraffe to demonstrate the performance of this feature? I&#8217;m not opposing Apple to you, you understood it this way. I could have added that the justification support in iBooks sucks just as much, and that it shouldn&#8217;t be an option to display html or epub text this way today. You&#8217;re both on the same boat to this regard.</p>
<p>Also, the tone of my post seems to have irritate some of you. Let me just say that I was pissed. But more by a way of doing things &#8211; going for the spectacular while omitting more essential but discreet issues &#8211; than by the people involved in this project, you or Paul and his team. A reader cared to write to me his disappointment regarding this and said I sounded like an 11 years old child. Well, 11 years ago I wouldn&#8217;t have been able to write like this in english because it&#8217;s not my mother tongue. So indeed, I&#8217;m an 11 y.o. boy, there you go. Finding the right words has become easier, but some progress and fine tuning has to be made regarding the tone.</p>
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