Hang in there and hope for incremental itterations of the process in a direction that reduces the number of “hate mail” submissions.

Keep up the good work, Bill

tPet, ummm, I wrote nothing about having the latest and greatest for “perpetuity”. Read it again. If I buy the newest version of Illustrator–CS6 in this case–it is natural to assume (because it’s always been so) that as the newest version of Illustrator it is the latest and greatest version since it is the “new” version. With me so far? As it stands now the boxed version of CS6 will never have any of the new features that CS6 subscription holders do even though both are called CS6. Boxed licensed version users will have to wait until CS7. So, if I buy CS6 boxed version right now (the “new” version) I’m not getting the Packaged file options or any of the new stuff that subscription users have right now when they receive their version of CS6. The two versions are not equal. So when you write “You paid for the license to use Illustrator as it was at the time you bought it” you’re wrong–it’s not CS6 as is available in it’s latest and greatest form at the time because it is not the CS6 with all of the bells and whistles that the subscribers have. It’s more like Photoshop vs Photoshop Extended with the additional features.

My biggest problem with feature parity was addressed by John when he wrote there would be no features that would break compatibility. I’m happy about that.

I’m happy Adobe offers a subscription service for those who want it, and as I stated before I understand that subscribers have a different set of software and services available to them. I like Adobe products. I like and appreciate John and his blog.

So why should I care tPet? Besides being the curmudgeonly old bastard that prefers boxed software (my choice of course) I don’t like that it’s not clearly labeled that I’m not getting the latest and greatest features when I buy the boxed software. When I look up my options in the handy dandy Photoshop Family Comparison Guide for instance: http://www.adobe.com/products/photoshopfamily/buying-guide-version-comparison.html there is no column for “Photoshop Extended Subscription” that spells out that it has additional features available that the other versions do not. So as a consumer if I’m on a friend’s machine running the subscription version of CS6 and I like it so much that I run out and buy a boxed copy I’m going to be a bit surprised when it’s missing features. Having purchased boxed software from Adobe for nearly two decades, yes I find that irritating. And yes, I know I can buy a subscription. And yes, eventually all software everywhere will probably be on subscription and I’ll be bitterly cursing while rocking myself in a beat up office chair clinging to an old smoking Mac Pro 1.1 complaining about how I have to fork over my wallet non-stop or all of my software will disappear from my computer. That’s likely in my future. I just want it clear that I’m getting a different and less capable version of the software when you’re happily using your Photoshop CS6 Extended Subscription version and I’m using my Photoshop CS6 Extended.

I realise you are still in a very powerful position in this market, so probably don’t feel you need to worry too much about upsetting a few customers, but things can change, so perhaps you shouldn’t give us too many reasons to look for alternatives.

["It's the Jungian thing, sir--the duality of man!" --J.]

Like many here, I love your blog, and I love having a face to Adobe. You are the only person from Adobe I can contact. I know for example, you will read this comment and that you will reply to me on Twitter.

So straight up John. Thanks for being there for us.

I know you really don’t have any thing to do with the Illustrator team, so I feel for you that the comments here are filled with hate!

Being an Illustrator user my self, I understand the frustration of Curt, Ces, Filip and many more.

Personally, Illustrator CS6 is a massive improvement in regards to stability and performance.

In saying that it has been a long time coming! Being an Illustrator user has been a painful time, there are bugs that have been carried along for many many versions and CS6 still has many issue.

The biggest hurt is all the great features that other app get and Illustrator take years to get something close.

Separation Preview – finally we got that, but its crippled compared to Acrobat and InDesign

Find Font – crippled compared to InDesign

Effects – again InDesign has far more that illustrator

Auto-Save – Even Photoshop got that in CS6

And of course Package for output – again indesign has had this for years.

There are many more issue but you get the point!

I have used FlightCheck, and more recently ArtFiles for what can only be called a massive oversight by the AI team.

So not getting Package isn’t a really big deal for me, as long as I have ArtFiles.

BUT that’s not the point, unlike the Creative Cloud folk, Adobe has my money, I have paid in full.

So really it not that I feel I am “entitled” to this upgrade for free, it that I feel it like Adobe showing me the middle finger, they could give it to me… but they won’t.

One final thing, I love some of the “classy” comments you have received!

Thanks John

Rip off Adobe, hope your shit company dies and goes bankrupt and burn in hell and all your lazy(like Steve Jobs said) and incompetent employees be laid off and live on the streets.

[And I hope you someday get to kiss a girl. --J.]

Thanks for the interesting link. But….

Sooooo….the last update for AI CS5 is from what, 2010? Like I said, “Illustrator has not had bug fix updates for [a] DAMN. LONG. TIME.”

CS4 has only had two tiny updates, totally <1MB in size to fix an FH import issue and to allow CS3(!!) plugin. So, c'mon, not really much of a bug fix for CS4, eh? And most of the ongoing workflow issues in CS5 are still there in CS6.

And if you want, I could compile my list of ongoing issues/bugs/problems with AI? All of which have been posted as bug reports and feature requests…and even submitted to beta testers (one way, mind you, as I have no idea what happened to the comments…well, other than not being implemented…yet?).

CS6:
-palettes are HUGE, so much so that they are counter-productive
-can't collapse all layers/sublayers AT ONCE, like you can now in PScs6
-status of layer (un)collapsed is never preserved when saving then reopening file.
-when you try to box-select a few closely spaced objects (and nothing else) on a page that also has text-on-path objects, your selection ends up including the text…even though the text is no where near the other objects and even though your selection does not cross the text's path. The box-select method mysteriously selects the text objects! Try it if you don't believe me. Just make a line, add text to it, then use the Selection Tool (v) to draw/drag a box somewhere near, but not on the line. Boy, I tell ya, that does wonders for end user productivity! (NOT)
-select behind is still worthless (see FH to see how to do it right)
-can't direct select an endpoint on text-on-path objects….you have to deselect object, hover until you are on endpoint, then click and drag to edit.
-still can't copy/paste vector object from AI to InD? And "but why would you want to do that?" is NOT the appropriate response.
-most of AI CS6 is still not true multi-core 64-bit. How do I know? I can watch my process monitor max out one core, while the others are idle…all just to copy and paste or move some text objects.

In the end, I'm sorry, but linking to a list of 'bug fixes' doesn't address the larger problem that AI needs more than a skin and 64-bit PS plugin support. It comes back to the all to often complain against Adobe these days: Stop with the silly new features and fix the basic tools we all use 95% of the time.

.curt

http://www.adobe.com/support/downloads/product.jsp?product=27&platform=Macintosh

I did read the post, I don’t think I explained myself correctly.

My worry: not everyone on CS6 will have all the features available. There might be incompatibilities issues down the line between cloud and non cloud customers. Waiting for the next point upgrades solves nothing.

My 2 cents. I’m only a freelancer paying for my software.

FR.

There’s no theoretical when it comes to exploits, so the calculus was *not* reasonable. People’s lives are being affected everyday by exploits left open. Security is security. Your bottom line trumped users’ security. It’s not a messaging problem, it’s a boardroom priority problem. Period.

–

But c’mon, Adobe PR releases have said you don’t do mid-cycle updates. (I could dig for the reference, but it’s out there…maybe even on this blog.) Or was it the CEO himself at a conference speaking engagement?? I think that was it.

Or try wikipedia for starters: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adobe_Illustrator

Which ones don’t have a x.1 release? v6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 13, 14.
And adding camera raw profiles doesn’t really count as an update.

Or this one: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adobe_Photoshop#cite_note-50
“PS 12.1 = PS 12.0.4″ per who else but John Nack.

“What’s the difference between Photoshop CS5 and 5.5? Nothing besides ***subscription support***.” – John Nack

http://blogs.adobe.com/jnack/2011/05/photoshop-12-1-photoshop-12-0-4.html

[crickets]

Illustrator has not had bug fix updates for damn. long. time. Even when you released a x.1 or x.5 release, it hasn’t done anything meaningful to us end users. I’m not on any NDA team so am not privy to details, but I know the engineers are frustrated that they aren’t allowed to fix code errors, UI bugs, and UX issues that have been long standing. Instead, they are directed to make 3D grids, pattern makers and now project collection service. A bullet point in someone’s calculus c/b slideshow means lost productivity to us.

Development: Of course things take time. So why not hold off on CS6 to include the project collection function? Or…[gasp]…release that function as a upDate to all PAID users? Have I not paid for CS6 (in one way or another)? Don’t I deserve that update? It’s part of AI, right? — So, in other words, when it becomes clear that featureA, fB, and fC won’t make the initial release, it’s someone’s conscience *decision* to hold back on giving paid users these features. It’s not accounting law/regulation that is holding Adobe back from giving us those features as a free update. It’s Adobe’s business model. (On the other hand, Apple’s iLife apps are updated regularly OTA.) So it’s possible to do real, substantive bug fix updates mid-cycle, but Adobe chooses not to do so.

And if the lack of regular, substantive 0.x updates is due to accounting, it only affirms to many of us who really is in charge of Adobe.

Again, as with my last dumping on your otherwise fine blog, it’s nothing personal, John. It just burns some of us to hear such much-heraled news of some new feature, while we deal with the same workflow bottle necks day after day after day… So, if by engaging you on this blog gives these issues more exposure, especially with the upper mgmt, well, so be it.

Thanks,
.curt

Haahahahaha….bug fixes! Too funny! Oh man, don’t quit your day job. No, seriously.

When has AI or PS received bug fixes mid-cycle? Ever?

[Every cycle. (Please find me a release of Photoshop, Illustrator, etc. that *hasn't* received at least one update. --J.]

Even when you guys had some serious security holes in CS apps, you initially wanted your oh-so-loyal customer base to UPGRADE to get the patches. (Imagine that, paying to fix YOUR security holes…)

[That was a mistake, but the calculus was this: Is it worth spending time patching apps for an obscure theoretical exploit (one never found or performed in the wild) at the expense of doing other feature work & bug fixing? It's always a zero-sum game. The simple cost-benefit calculus was reasonable, but the message it sent to customers was horrible; hence the re-think. --J.]

Now, you relented and did provide a patch….but only after the IT security industry folks publicly and loudly called you out on it.

But bug fixes? That’s a riot. You guys rewrote AI into the new UI…bugs and all!

Look, despite your bean counters’ optimistic numbers, a lot of us won’t be going to the pay-to-play model. I paid $0 to get CS6 (upgrade deal), and I only paid $400 to get my CS4 up to CS5 (design std). So why would I ever be enticed to pay $200 MORE a year to get apps I won’t have time to use? And If I don’t upgrade until 2014, I’ll have saved ((12x$50)x2)-$400) = $800.

And then you throw out these “updates” as somehow being worth that extra cost. You. Still. Don’t. Get. It. >> Fix the stuff that is already broken and stop adding bloat. Or step up the feature migration from Freehand. And @Barry, you’d better believe this package feature was in the works long before the CS6 release.

[*Everything* is in development for a long time. That doesn't mean it's ready to ship at any particular time. --J.]

Adobe creating an update in only two months? History doesn’t bear that out. Rather, the package feature was the “killer app” idea for the cloudCS.

Someone mentioned the accounting preventing upgrades mid-cycle. If it’s a FREE bug fix, are you really charging for it? So the accounting might not even play into this.

[As I said, we need to do a better job explaining how bug fixes & compatibility updates (e.g. the ones we've always offered for free for Camera Raw) are different from feature enhancements. Accounting law handles them differently. --J.]

Moreover, look to Apple as to how to do it right, within accounting limitations. For awhile, you had to pay a mere $10 to get the iOS update for iPodTouches. So, people go their upgrade, for a modest fee, and Apple got their accounting right. Adobe won’t do this because it goes against their core business model.

[It doesn't go against Adobe's core business model, but it would entail deferring revenue (which on paper makes it seem that the company is doing worse), and that would apparently cause Wall St. to flip out. Needless to say this isn't my call, and I find it frustrating. --J.]

In short, John, Adobe’s it’s this stated business model of not releasing mid-cycle updates to paid license holders that isn’t very user friendly no matter how much or how hard you spin the Cloud deal.

Being user friendly would be opening up the architecture so we could buy “features” a al carte. But like cable TV subscriptions we end up paying a lot of money for ‘stuff’ we don’t want, let alone need.

And one last point, why would I want to be on the latest cloud version, when many times, earlier versions of AI/PS not only are “good enough”, but often faster in real world production environments because of less bloat. (Ex. Ten years later, Freehand’s type engine runs circles around AI’s type engine, that isn’t even 64-bit to this day.)

Cheers,
.ces

Releasing new features into an already buggy application seems, well, …….

[Absolutely, but these things can be done in parallel. I don't know whether the AI update will also contain bug fixes (for everyone, not just subscribers), but I'd be rather surprised if it didn't. --J.]

Why John,why?

[Presumably because we want you to subscribe to the higher-priced offering, and because we think people with needs met by Photoshop Extended (e.g. 3D) would likely benefit from related apps (e.g. After Effects) available through full Creative Cloud membership. --J.]