Stoppage

Things are not going so swell right now, at least for my development tasks. My favored Linux distribution — which I previously claimed rarely fails me — failed me. I may need to shop around for another distribution soon (perhaps along the lines of Mac OS X or Windows).

Though we have been diligently working towards getting all of the Linux features in line with the Windows and Mac counterparts, we have been hitting some capability walls. I.e., there are some standard facilities and APIs that Windows and Mac operating systems provide to applications that Linux simply doesn’t. To be sure, it’s not that Linux can’t do XYZ, it’s that there are so many ways to do XYZ. And forget about making these different methods interoperate where conducive. To answer anticipated objections, we don’t have the prerogative to pick and choose which Flash features go into the Linux version; it’s basically all or nothing. To address further objections, “Adobe isnโ€™t open sourcing the Player at this time.”

Though many of the Flash 8 and 9 features are in place now, the Linux Flash Player currently crashes. A lot. I have yet to make it through one full minute of a video when I try to partake of the erudite entertainment at YouTube. On the plus side, the pre-crash A/V sync is outstanding.

Undaunted, the ragtag Linux Flash team presses forth…

111 Responses to Stoppage

  1. Clarke Brunsdon says:

    Yes, there _are_ so many ways of doing XYZ, but for each and every time you come across XYZ please feel free to ask around, or elsewhere (but let us know where).Yes you will get a thousand posts demanding flash 9 now, but maybe there is a ‘best easiest way’ to do XYZ that someone with a different set of experiences than you knows about.If this blog cannot get you response back quick enough, maybe something like a mailing list or IRC would help?Anyways, I’m sure there are a lot of people with many different skills willing to lend assistance in way of consulting and advice if they can’t touch the actual code.Oh, and do not lose faith in the gentoo ๐Ÿ˜‰

  2. mark pinto says:

    How did Gentoo fail you? OS X or Windows, really? Just use something less insane, such as Debian.Although you told us there were problems, you didn’t tell us specically what types of problems. Do you have questions about how to do something with Linux? Something we can help you with?

  3. Anders Aagaard says:

    “My favored Linux distribution — which I previously claimed rarely fails me — failed me. I may need to shop around for another distribution soon (perhaps along the lines of Mac OS X or Windows).”failed you how, and .. I seriously doubt windows is gonna fail less on you than a linux distribution after it’s set up.In my experience atleast, linux distributions are troublesome before they are set up and running, and windows is troublesome after it’s set up and running.

  4. Nick says:

    As I had read earlier, you used Gentoo if I’m not mistaken. What exactly failed you?There’s a wealth of Gentoo enthusiasts who’d be more than happy to assist you if it’s anything related to Gentoo & Linux.One other question comes to mind – Is an alpha/prealpha release possible? Even with massive crashing, I’d love to see the new flash player & av sync. Switching between versions is not exactly a difficult thing to do for us, and I for one promise not to complain about crashing until the official release.If a public alpha is out of the question, what about selective testing among the community?

  5. Ethan Lofton says:

    That’s too bad that the linux flash player client is crashing. So far, the main positive thing I’m seeing is good audio/video sync, it’s very unfortunate that it seems as if the linux player is, again, falling behind drastically. 20-30% of the content I try and look at says I need at least flash player 8(9), this is very annoying. What are you currently having trouble with?Thanks for keeping us up to date, I hope to hear more!

  6. amd-linux says:

    Good to hear from you again. It would be *very* helpful to know some specific details about your problems with missing standards on Linux. As you know, there are some projects on the way with regard to standardization (LSB, Portland Project), I am sure, the Free Standards Group and the OSDL would be glad to get some feedback on this problems.And as a lawyer, I read from “Adobe isnโ€™t open sourcing the Player at this time.” that Adobe might open source the Flash player at a later time then ๐Ÿ™‚

  7. Fox says:

    To be sure, it’s not that Linux can’t do XYZ, it’s that there are so many ways to do XYZ.That’s why Adobe MUST open source the player, or hire someone who knows a lot more about APIs for linux than you do (nothing against you, it’s a fact, you don’t know much about linux’s APIs ๐Ÿ™‚

  8. Jay says:

    Debian or Ubuntu makes the best development or server distribution. I used to have to manage a Gentoo server which would constantly break for various reasons. New upstream versions. Broken library compatabilities. You name it.

  9. Tristan Wibberley says:

    What XYZ’s are those?

  10. Perhaps you should post which APIs you’re having trouble finding a standard for in Linux. Adobe may not open source Flash, but perhaps the community could help with some code advice.I know a lot of people are eager for a decent Flash player on Linux, and I’m sure you’d get plenty of good technical suggestions.

  11. Matt Philmon says:

    So just to spell it out, does this mean you are abandoning the project? Does this mean Flash 9 for Linux will not happen?

  12. Chris says:

    I’m not really worried if Adobe releases another Flash plugin or not. There’s always projects like Gnash which aim to provide the same functionality.

  13. Chuck Mason says:

    Check out Novell SLED 10 (SuSE Linux Enterprise Desktop). It’s amazing (http://www.novell.com/linux)! I hope it works out for you with regard to your Linux development efforts.Cheers!Chuck

  14. Stoffe says:

    Sorry to hear about your trouble, and I hope you still will press on – we Linux users really appreciate that work is being done here.

  15. Matt Philmon says:

    Actually, didn’t mean to sound harsh, just got worried. Hang in there man!! We all have our bad days.

  16. Chris S says:

    Well, it certainly is good to hear that a lot of the new features are in there. Bug squashing is always fun!

  17. Chris says:

    The title of your post scares me. Could/would you venture a guess as to how far you’ve gotten along – 50%, 60%, etc? I know “it’s Adobe’s policy not to speculate..and so on”, but I’m asking for your personal feeling, not any hard statistics or any kind of time frame.Thanks for maintaining this blog – at least we know *something’s* happening (even if it isn’t good ๐Ÿ˜‰ ).

  18. Lars says:

    I write quickly before the bunch starts screaming for blood :)About the ammount of options and features, have you tought about using a wrapper library, like SDL? It’s LGPL so it wouldn’t in theory force you to open source the player, only those changes if any you make to SDL, it is possible to include SDL with the player (some do it, like PlaneShift). or require people to install SDL in their distro (it’s available in most) and it would offer a homogeneous interface to several backends for the task that are already part of the library.

  19. mr pulse says:

    im glad you guys are doing this but you are making it too hard on yourself. if there are a dozen ways to do xyz then just pick one and we can adapt. better idea. do what google is doing and just wrap it in wine. i run flash 9 on linux just fine with wine and the windows firefox installed.

  20. aroedl says:

    Please define “XYZ”.

  21. Bill says:

    Keep up the good work!

  22. Kilz says:

    If you would like to try a new distro, why not try Ubuntu?Maybe you just need more help. Im suprised that A large company like adobe doesnt have 50-100 people working on this.

  23. Jim says:

    Mike, ubuntu is a good choice. It is the most popular desktop Linux distro at this time, it’s very stable, easy to install, easy configure and easy use. Maybe this will help you spend less time worrying about your distro, and more time developing.

  24. Luckily Gnash is provided by people who know lots about the Linux API’s. However, it’s also only going to support Flash 7 and is *not* in a state for normal people to use.Just wanted to mention: Open Source Flash! Proprietary formats are so 90’s! ;-)(I know you already addressed that concern, but it wont hurt to repeat the point).*If* you’re allowed to post what problems you’re having, then let us know and no doubt the community can help. Doesn’t sound like the project is over (although you’d think so from the digg.com article I just read) just that you’re having a few problems.As the FLOSS tenet goes: “Given enough eyeballs, all bugs are shallow.”

  25. rob T says:

    MIKE STOP MESSING AROUND , WASTING TIME WITH GENTOO!!!Honestly Mike! Get a hold of someone at Redhat, Suse, Ubuntu, etc.etc..etc… Go to the forums, join the mailing lists.They _WILL_ help you! They will do the work FOR YOU!Linux is what it is, because of the community. No one is alone. Stop writing software for linux like you write software for windows, becuase LINUX IS NOT WINDOWS.

  26. jimbo says:

    i guess the good news is that the longer adobe stalls, the more support gnash will gain.

  27. Sterling Christensen says:

    Mike, people are overreacting to your comment:http://digg.com/linux_unix/No_Hope_for_Flash_8_and_9_for_LinuxMost people there seem to think it means the project is cancelled.

  28. FunkyM says:

    All the community is here to help on proposals and API decisions. Several other “multimedia” software failed due to the reasons supplied here. Dozens of API’s to choose from which often screw up the thing when it has to work together.Due to the number of different frameworks to use it should be noted that it will be hard to satisfy ALL possible cases. Furthermore the more you start to mix, the more problems will arise.The best step would be to stick to standards and rising techologies which are being used in these linux desktop days on the most used distros (GStreamer, HAL, D-BUS, …).I am sure that even companies such as Novell would be glad to help here and all it takes is a call. ;)Checkout their excellent SLED 10 and underlying technologies or also the great Ubuntu. It is stuff that works and integrates and in a couple of cases does not even need to be(come) open source.Just keep on going!

  29. macewan says:

    I’m with Jay on this – go with a Debian flavored distro. You can’t go wrong with Ubuntu – we’re a feisty group :-)Don’t give up on Linux.

  30. BTreeHugger says:

    Flash has a very minimal UI, from what I’ve seen; a single popup when you right-click. Maybe it would be best to just rely on plain X11 libraries? Of course, I’m assuming a lot here. But if you are primarily worried about the age-old QT vs. GTK vs. SDL vs. everything else problem, then does a browser plugin need to have all that auxilliary support that a QT or GTK offer? Especially if Adobe is at all interested in the LSB..As for your distro problems, take obvious time to research the fundamental differences between your current distro and the one you want to try. Every time I switch I have to relearn the init system, package manager, and have to worry about what to get rid of and what to keep; this usually takes at least a few hours of time that could be better spent on development.

  31. Steven B says:

    Dont always choose the mainstream linux distros, try out kanotix, I use it for everything including gaming, then if i cant use something wine always helps me out.

  32. I’m curious as a gentoo developer to find out exactly what failed you. I’d also be willing to say that if you were to possibly define some of the problems you are having with api’s that there are actually tools out there that cover what you do or are already covered in documentation such as the LSB or other functions of the nature.As much as many people don’t like a closed source app in linux. At times its something that is needed. In this case without a updated flash for linux. It’ll have a bad effect for the desktop linux market.

  33. Good bit of digg.com rumour control there from Emmy.Please don’t take the outrage of the few to be discouraging! They’ll soon forget all this if/when Adobe get a Flash player out of the door.Good luck, and thanks for opening up … Even if it’s just a little.

  34. Justin says:

    Well this sucks.As others have said, please just come out and say it – is there going to be a release of Flash (stable or not) within a reasonable amout of time? If the answer is no, we should simply ditch Adobe’s Flash altogether and support the Gnash project.And, yes, I put my vote in for Ubuntu. Please at least try it before going back to Windows or OSX.

  35. James Jones says:

    As has been said repeatedly: enumerate the facilities and APIs in question.

  36. RG says:

    Sorry to hear you guys are stuck. Why not take the path that other vendors take? For instance, VMWare has a short list of distro configurations it will work on. (And yes, they do a lot of multimedia + other multi-API stuff.) Anything else and you’re on your own. Surely you guys can get it working on *1* distro??? From there, you can pick and choose where to branch out.I, for one, applaud your efforts and hope Adobe gets behind you with some real support. Damn shame to be outdone by the likes of EMC, not to mention 100% of the Linux multimedia dev community.

  37. aent says:

    I also say to try out Ubuntu… and DON’T GIVE UP… Ubuntu is THE desktop designed for end users and also has great developer support. Also, contact Canoncial, I’m sure they are willing to help you determine what APIs you should be standardizing on. Working with a distro maintainer such as them, or RedHat, etc are bound to make the API decisions for you.

  38. RG says:

    One more suggestion:Perhaps Adobe could share the cost of the port with Linux desktop vendors? Certainly the folks behind Red Hat, Novell, IBM, Linspire, Ubuntu, etc. could chip in and make this happen. We’ve got to be talking about what? $250k-$300k annual budget? Drop in the bucket, and all of those guys need to be able to say that Flash works on the desktop.Please don’t give up!

  39. Jason Frey says:

    Please DO NOT give up the ship!To tell you the truth, I wish we didn’t need Flash player. However, since its become prevalent and people are coding to the latest versions, we are in need of an up to date Linux version.You’re our only hope (star wars pun intended)!There are *many* people who are technically capable and willing to assist you.Without divulging company secrets, post the specific problem(s) you’re having on this forum. We’ll try to help.Alternatively, post questions on Linux technical / programming forums.As for open sourcing the player, no need to do so. We just want an up to date working program, not the code.BTW – I’ve been using a popular Linux distribution for a number of years. I use it for software development and general purpose computing. Although, there are things in OS X that I’d like to have, I find Linux to be extremely stable and it better suits my needs than OS X or Windows (YMMV). If it works for me, it can work for anyone. If you really want things to work let us help.Best of luck.

  40. Smarty Pants says:

    Honestly, you should just give up, you make adobe look worse than they are. What is the point of putting out a newer flash player on linux? If you just gave up, we will code a better one, and won’t be nearly as whiny about it. From the way you sound, you simply don’t get it anyways.

  41. absurdist says:

    OK, now how about you just STFU and let the men who have things to actually ACCOMPLISH pass by so we can do them while you sit and whine about your fave (for the next 30 seconds) distro?For the sweet love of Jesus Tittyfucking Christ, would SOMEONE please SHOOT these presemptuous fucks?

  42. absurdist says:

    Give up.You’re a loser.Nothing you EVER do will suck sufficiently less to erase this stain on your psyche.I need a drink.

  43. Penguin Pete says:

    OK, cut the bullshit. The day Adobe bought Macromedia I said, “There will never be a another Flash release for Linux.” Because as much as Bill Gates hates Linux, Adobe hates it just a nickel less.Let’s examine why: Adobe’s bread and butter is the vaunted image tool suite. And there’s all the image tools already out there on Linux: Gimp, POVray, Blender, Inkscape. I know what the Hollywood studios use to make movies, and it isn’t Photoshop! But what Adobe doesn’t realize is that there *IS* no competition for Adobe’s market; everybody who can use the professional power tools of Linux already uses them. The people who want Adobe’s pretty little toys will be just as happy to pay for them on Linux as on any other platform. Face it, Adobe, your whole company exists basically because Microsoft never followed through with MS Paintbrush.Well, Linux will just have to make it’s own SVG animator web-plugin and port it to the other platforms on Firefox, I guess. Flash came out in 1996: it’s not like it’s rocket science to reverse-engineer. And Google ports Picasa to Linux… Yes, Adobe’s lunch on Linux is being eaten already, and Adobe will follow Microsoft down the hole of companies that were so greedy that they were clutching the pennies they already had too hard to reach out and grab the dollars blowing right by them. Ten years from now, Adobe will come around kissing our asses and opening their source code and saying “We really loved Linux the whole time!” Just like Sun and IBM.Thanks for the laughs. See you in ten.

  44. Jon says:

    Oh come on.Macromedia / Adobe has already let down Linux users with the Flash 7 plugin and each day that passes makes me run into yet another “Flash 8 required” site.If you can’t open source it and can’t do it yourself, then why not hire someone else who can help you. Ryan Gordon from Icculus ported lots of entire game engines and apps like Google Earth but Adobe can’t get a frickin browser plugin out?

  45. Alex Lowe says:

    I just wanted to encourage you to soldier on. I know how difficult it is sometimes to find the best approach.I used to be a Gentoo user, and switched to Kubuntu (I’m a KDE lover) because it’s a lot easier to work with. I encourage you to switch to one of the easier distros (no offence to Gentoo) and continue your work. I know the whole community will appreciate it.As some others have said, WINE and SDL would both work well for what you need. I personally would go with SDL (I just like having native Linux binaries), but either should work fine.I have used Flash 9/Firefox under WINE, but my primary browser is Konqueror. Even just writing a patch that would let the latest Flash work in WINE as a generic Netscape-style plugin (you could talk to Codeweavers about that, as they can do that) would be wonderful.Don’t lose faith! We haven’t lost faith in you yet!

  46. Francis says:

    That is seriously one of the saddest news ever… How can you stop something so important like flash on linux. I guess i’ll just stop use flash and start hack on svg. Thank a lot you just made sure that I will never buy and/or download an adobe software gain… (apt-get remove flashplugin-nonfree && apt-get remove acroread) commercial spport. It’s a shame.

  47. Nick says:

    I don’t see how API’s are an issue here. There’s always a mainstream method of doing things, even if there are alternatives.Graphics Toolkit? GTK (Pretty much all KDE/QT users have backwards compatibility, but GTK users may not have QT support.)Audio? Alsa (Already done, as we know)Video? OpenGL (PC’s without acceleration will kick into software opengl via mesa)Video Input? V4L2 (Already done? Kernel standard, V4L is getting kicked out)Did I miss anything?I really fail to see why doing XYZ is so much of an issue here. For every instance, there’s an obvious mainstream choice to go with.

  48. ryan says:

    dude, you suck, seriously. fuck you, we don’t want our flash, we need our flash player

  49. nanenj says:

    If there’s no flash player for linux, it won’t dissuage people from using linux, it’ll simply dissuade people from using flash as they realize a significant portion of their customers and site visitors won’t be able to use their content. It’s an avenue of suicide when web companies definately do care about every last person they can possibly reach.

  50. Krux says:

    We all appreciate your work on a Flash 8/9 player for linux. And we understand the need for closed source here, but you can still tap the resources of the open source community. There are lots of tallented programmers who are eager to answer questions, etc…

  51. Ian Monroe says:

    Yea, Windows is a great Linux distribution. O.o

  52. Chester says:

    I for one believe that Mike and the rest of the Flash team have taken a step in the right direction (setting up distcc, porting the ASM code to AT&T style, etc.). These steps should make subsequent releases of flash available to linux users faster. In my opinion that’s worth missing a version (8) for.The player will be out eventually and bitching and complaining isn’t going to get it out any faster.Keep up the good work, Mike and the rest of the team.

  53. Chris Kringle says:

    Personally I think you should use Suse linux or Ubuntu. Both can give you great support at resolving many issues you may have.I would also support Firefox for starters and then expand it to other browsers.Also I would look to mplayer as they have some of the most amazing video being done for the linux community.

  54. Gravis says:

    i have to say that this is nothing short of pathetic. as a C/C++ programmer who works with APIs for multiple platform daily, i call adobe’s efforts a disgrace. either that or your programmers are not creative enough to get the job done. hire more (creative) programmers.

  55. Randy says:

    Sorry to hear your favored OS failed. I see many have been pushing for a debian OS as a replacement, but I might suggest Mandriva.As far as the many ways to do XYZ, and the feeling that all those ways need to be addressed, maybe you don’t need to use all the ways to impliment XYZ but one or two. I think most all apps support most of the different ways of doing something and if you just ask the community for some help you might find that just one or two methods are needed for doing XYZ rather that all the methods. Including all methods to do XYZ when only a couple is needed would be overkill and a waste of programming time.I would suggest getting flash 9 for linux running with what is just needed for now, and possibly add the rest in later if you really think the other methods are really needed for some reason.

  56. Nick says:

    Like everyone else, I agree fully with the move away from Flash. The last shred of respect I had for Adobe has gone out the window with this blog post, and is quickly making it’s way to becoming a hated company in my view. I will be moving all business projects I’m involved in away from Flex/Flash to alternative, open source, solutions.As francis put it,”emerge -C netscape-flash”Sayonara Adobe.

  57. This can’t be true? You’re getting paid for developing linuxapps but are giving up like this. Shame on you! ๐Ÿ˜‰

  58. Kric says:

    Please,Don’t throw the towel in yet.. Its too soon. I use gentoo and it can be a pain in the ass sometimes.. Try something more steady Ubuntu is a good choice. But we really need your help right now buddy. Your all we got right now. Don’t listen to the angry people. Gnash will be great but still will *never* be fully featured or up-to-date with current players “at least anytime soon”. Also you pretty much have 99.99% of the linux community that would love to give you a hand if need be. You know that man.

  59. Craig says:

    “I may need to shop around for another distribution soon”Get Ubu — http://shipit.ubuntu.com

  60. Bob says:

    I can’t believe that Adobe isn’t making this more of a priority. There are lots of ways to get everything working with enough manpower to do so. The inability of whoever is currently working on it points to one of two things:1) Lack of manpower.2) Incompetence.Or both. And Gentoo doesn’t hold as large a portion of the desktop Linux market as the combined might of Debian and its derivatives, plus SuSe/Redhat. Gentoo is in a constant state of beta and is subject to breakage. It’d be best to base your tests and development on a more common, more stable, more commonly accepted in the enterprise distro.

  61. triplah says:

    so basically, someone is having a hissy fit because linux is too flexible? Sounds like laziness to me…. OR adobe is trying to not cop the bad wrap and let an employee cop it.”GNU/linux” doesnt fail, a component of it may.So much for the approval marcomedia were starting to win.

  62. triplah says:

    upon further inspection…. what kind of linux development team doesnt know how to fix something when it goes wrong? Also, what kind of linux development team doesnt know about himem in the 32bit kernel!

  63. triplah says:

    and then again, i see this line…”Undaunted, the ragtag Linux Flash team presses forth…”i hope that is a status update ๐Ÿ™‚

  64. George says:

    Been there, done that… I used gentoo but it was just unbearable. slow, packages not installing, claims not met (always bleeding edge). I was mostly bleeding and jumping off the clip. Maybe that’s what bleeding edge means?Well my next thing was ubuntu, plain vanilla (gnome). There are still some issues but in genaral it works pretty well.in short: it’s apt-get instead of emerge :-)Oh and for the main subject: I don’t mind crashing, that’s where the sessionsaver plugin for firefox comes in (opera style) but I do mind that I can’t view even 30s worth of some sites! Like just clicking ‘skip’ on the completely useles flash intro animation.I want an alpha now, even if I have to sign a disclaimer that I should not complain about crashing on any newssite in the world!

  65. Abbas Khan says:

    Adobe can not get away – without releasing a Linux version of flash player. Remember the Hoard of Linux Users will hunt you down… FEAR US…

  66. Andy says:

    IS there anytime line at all for when a v8 or v9 will come to Linux?

  67. Sterling Christensen says:

    @Francis: they’re not stopping.See “Undaunted, the ragtag Linux Flash team presses forth…” at the bottom?

  68. none says:

    Simply ask for help!!!

  69. dagi3d says:

    and how will he continue with the linux version of the flash player if he switches to macos or windows

  70. Markos Fragkakis says:

    When there are too many ways, I just pick one.

  71. Limulus says:

    Aaaarrgghhh!!!http://static.flickr.com/37/74353767_04c2efc838_m.jpgToday I went and finished installing Ubuntu for the daughter and granddaughter of my neighbor (I had done a basic install a couple weeks ago, but hadn’t gotten around to putting in the ‘bells and whistles’). One of the things that I got asked is why such-and-such website doesn’t work?Its because it uses Flash 8!

  72. Mark says:

    Hey Mike,that post sounds mighty frustrated. Well, it’s a huge undertaking, and you’re pretty much on your own.Take a break. Maybe a few days off, or implement an intrinsic class EasterEgg. And yeah, specify some of the XYZs, or start an IRC channel. There are many people willing to help, and some of them are able to.Good luck, and thanks for going through that Valley of Tears for us!

  73. Virogenesis says:

    Personally I would of used ubuntu as they take a snapshot of debian unstable every 6 months and that makes up the base for ubuntu.Google actually use ubuntu inhouse thats how popular it is which makes it an ideal platform for support but saying that fedora core 5 is highly polished.Personally I would ask more help from the community a new liceanse maybe which would allow flash to be installed as default.What we want is a decent player have you looked at gnash?That uses gstreamer

  74. Jure Repinc says:

    I agree with other people here. If you have a problem with something, don’t be afraid to ask for help. Be specific and don’t only say XYZ. Sooner or later even the most experienced programmer needs help from other people. And this looks like the case. Not only can this be good for people waiting for Flash player on Linux, but it will also be good for you since you will learn something new.And I also have to agree with others saying that closed and not free files formats don’t have a place in todays world. Why doesn’t Adobe publish the specifications of Flash and legally allow other people making players for it. I think this would be by far the best solution. For people and for the company since Flash would become only more popular.

  75. Mark says:

    What the hell is wrong with some of the posters here?I don’t even have a problem with FOSS fundamentalists normally, but the few safely sitting in mom’s basement, in all likelyness having more than one app Mike made significant contributions to (or even admins) installed, getting personal really piss me off.If you don’t like Flash, don’t use it. If you prefer Gnash, contribute. If you think you can come up with something better, by all means, go ahead and do it.But stop offending somebody who’s doing hard work when you really have no idea what kind of obstacles he’s facing.

  76. Andre says:

    The impression I get is that the Windows version was written by coders who either know nothing about how other OS’es do things, or don’t care. A lot of difficulties in the port could probably have been avoided if the original code had been written more portably to begin with. So instead of hiring one or two extra people to port the original crappy code, it might be better in the long run to make sure that those who write the Windows version know enough about other OS’es to avoid the Windows-only APIs when possible. This will not only make porting much easier, it will result in better code even in Windows. If the existing Windows coders don’t have this knowledge, they should either learn or be fired. The fault here is mainly with the original Windows coders, not with the one or two Linux interns Adobe has stuck with the task of porting this crappy code.

  77. JorgeC says:

    This is just unbelievable, at least to me. Such a huge company like Adobe, full of resources, says that it can’t continue developing the Flash player because XYZ?. I hope this is only an April’s fool joke!

  78. dragoran says:

    please tell us what xyz is so that we can help you (tell you which lib provides this features and how to use it)

  79. Coward says:

    Good for you ๐Ÿ™‚

  80. ARCHLINUX says:

    use archlinux. Every converter iv’e heard of from debian or gentoo prefer archlinux. no lie. people don’t convert the other way(yes that’s a stretch but is probably 98% correct :))

  81. kris says:

    Can’t you atleast get it working as some kind of plugin using wine?? That would be nice enough for me…

  82. Ben says:

    It really bothers me how negative people here are being. If you don’t want Flash on Linux or you want to bash Adobe — go somewhere else. Some of us appreciate the effort these guys are putting in and would like to see a full-featured Flash on Linux.I hope these zealots don’t deter your efforts guys.As for the technical issues I am going to add my voice to the ‘tell us what you can’ crowd. If it is simply a GUI toolkit you’re choosing between, well, pick one. VMware chose GTK, Opera chose QT. (Just please don’t choose motif or xlib!) If you need a general purpose library Glib may be what you need.Don’t kill Flash for Linux!

  83. Steve says:

    The first Linux distro I tried was Gentoo. It was good that I did, because it helps show just how user (and developer) friendly Ubuntu is. The latest version (Dapper Drake, 6.06) installed brilliantly easily on both a 3GHz workstation I use at work and a 400 MHz PII laptop I have at home.Do the swap and get back to work – we need you to finish!

  84. Bloody says:

    Ok, four things to say:First two things are useful advice for Mike:1. Mike don’t give up. We’re with you. Whatever those losers who posted insults might say (they might have believed the rumor that the development was entirely halted).2. Mike, if you’re looking for a new Linux distro, I would suggest either Ubuntu, Fedora or SUSE (the commercial one with SLED).But since Tinic is already using Ubuntu, I would suggest you either hang on with Gentoo or choose Fedora or SUSE. This way it will allow you to debug Flash on more than one distro.***Next two things are messages for people with whom I’m really annoyed about:3. To those who posted insults here, if you’re dumb enough to flame one of the only Adobe engineers who is nice enough to port Flash on linux, I think you should GO BACK TO WINDOWS.4. To OSS evangelists who can’t stand the fact that Flash is a closed source app, you really are losers.

  85. steph says:

    > 3. To those who posted insults> here, if you’re dumb enough…> 4. To OSS evangelists who can’t> stand the fact that Flash…Thanks.. someone had to say it. Mike, most of us really appreciate the work you are doing.. just ignore the trolls.

  86. Virogenesis says:

    Hahaha I know this is going to be pushing it but will we also see a 64bit version I know you won’t be giving up anytime soon so I do know this project will get finished.You might also want to check out irc.freenode.net you’ll find alot of help there I’m sureKudos to you for your effort

  87. patop says:

    “Though we have been diligently working towards getting all of the Linux features in line with the Windows and Mac counterparts, we have been hitting some capability walls. I.e., there are some standard facilities and APIs that Windows and Mac operating systems provide to applications that Linux simply doesn’t. To be sure, it’s not that Linux can’t do XYZ, it’s that there are so many ways to do XYZ. And forget about making these different methods interoperate where conducive. To answer anticipated objections, we don’t have the prerogative to pick and choose which Flash features go into the Linux version; it’s basically all or nothing.”as I thought , Linux realy need sth like Elektra Projecthttp://www.libelektra.org/Main_Page

  88. Clรกudio Esperanรงa says:

    There are really some posts here!!!Well, I wish you luke in the “new” linux distribution. I have changed from Ubuntu to Gentoo, because Gentoo is much more adaptive to satisfy my developper needs. Of course this is just an opinion.I’m sad that adobe don’t open the flash player source for Linux. If that appen, flash will grow much more fast. But I’m really happy that Adobe buid a java based compiler to actionscript 3 (with flex) that runs on linux. Now we only need the player :)Thanks for your effort.

  89. Master Lord Satan says:

    “To be sure, it’s not that Linux can’t do XYZ, it’s that there are so many ways to do XYZ.”That’s one of the many reasons why I switched from Windows to Linux and will never go back to using another M$ product or service ever again. And why would I go to MAC OS X? I switched AWAY from Windows to get away from CLOSED SOURCE!I shouldn’t have to pay for a closed source operating system to use a closed source program or file format.”Though many of the Flash 8 and 9 features are in place now, the Linux Flash Player currently crashes. A lot.”Were it open source, other coders could contribute their help for free and perhaps people wouldn’t have to wait so long for a new version each time.Open source is the future, companies need to get with the times.

  90. Anonymous says:

    Well, just make an “Adobe Linux” distro, with all the features you need and stop complaining!:)

  91. DannyStaple says:

    Meh, I think Flash will become increasingly irrelevant. More so given that its not portable.The combination of Javascript/DHTML, AJAX, CSS and SVG must present a significant threat, especially as they are not restricted for platforms in the same way (IE 7 should get core support for SVG), as well as presenting a consistent XML layer with data exchange.

  92. TerryP says:

    If you need a new Distro, why not try an Operating System like PC-BSD. It’s not Linux, it’s BSD but it’s easy for newbies, keeps the full power of a Unix system, and includes a nice way to pack software:)I hope to see a Linux, or native BSD version – if theres a BSD one I’ll actually use flash again.Prehapes adobe should try to hire some seasoned programmers in the Linux world that know how best to deal with Linux API’s to help you uf they won’t go OSS

  93. Lphant says:

    I would like to install Flash 8/9 in my Kubuntu ๐Ÿ˜€

  94. Andreas Vetter says:

    Look at thisabout 100 comments on this thread in just 2 days.now i know the interest for flash with linux is huge.i am pretty new to linux,but i like it and decided windows to be my secondary os.i would like switch my development to linux too.i suggestDONT PANIC !TAKE A BREAK !ENJOY THE SUN !GET SOME INSPIRATION OFF FROM THE COMPUTER !and by the waywho sayd that linux cannot be used as a platform for nonfree tools like photoshop ?free your mindand your ass will follow

  95. llp says:

    I know that Adobe do not want to open Flash code. Anyway, why it doesn’t help the GNASH development? So, it will not release its code, and we will have a flash player 8/9 for GNU/Linux.

  96. Mait says:

    So many people cheering up your effort. me too.People that all over the world will help you, if you ready.I live in Korea and huge percents Korea web sites use Flash SO many. I would to see Flash8/9 media clip ; )Don’t Give up ~ Mike

  97. Jad madi says:

    How about making it in reverse ? I mean instead of looking for every distribution Howto do XYZ; offer your Adobe XYZ to have flash running and let the distribution company or community know about it; I guess this will solve it

  98. KeK says:

    I joining to the previous comment, he is right.Linux can’t do XYZ then what?World will collapse?Actually I wondering what you done for the linux community, how many software you wrote, I think not even 1, then what’s the point of your Blog?You crying here because of the wrong flash support in linux instead of doing some meaningless.People like you and me just waiting for another SW don’t do anything for it, and belive me we don’t need to do anything just wait. Sooner or later the software will be here.This is wasting the time.

  99. brickbat says:

    Hi,Nice to see this is being worked on. If you use Ubuntu,Suse or Fedora, and you put your home directory on a different partition, you can reinstall the whole environment on an hour. Unless you are a glutton for punishment – Then you can choose Gentoo. My preference for now is Ubuntu – like Debian, only better.

  100. carmen says:

    flash is unnecessary for youtube anyways. a 1 line greasemonkey script can play the flv with mplayer plugin ๐Ÿ™‚

  101. changes says:

    I bet IBM would do a better job with the Flash player for Linux, were they to have control of it.I hate Windows and refuse to use any Microsoft product or service.

  102. Malix says:

    Why you don’t ask to community how to do things? In the past I remember that engineers from Borland had trouble porting Delphi to Linux, and with the help of the community them solved their problems. There is a lot of interes around Flash for Linux and I think that the community have interest in helping you.

  103. Irradiation says:

    Well honestly I have not much to conribute on this thread, but hoped that someone could explain if the problem with the xyz is because of Linux, or the window manager, like Gnome and KDE etc.

  104. John says:

    You can always use FreeBSD, so we can have a real native version of BSD Flash player ๐Ÿ˜€

  105. Anonymous says:

    Wine can’t help to port flash 8 or 9 for linux?

  106. blacksoc says:

    Being new to linux/ubuntu i can understand the many xyz’s of it – but why can’t you chose one of them and go with it on a base system say debian/ubuntu and get it working – thats what you have with win and mac – and then it’s up to the users to deal with the offering – you won’t get anywere for linux trying to develp under windows

  107. ft says:

    Sorry to hear you are having problems.Please keep up the good work though. Flash is just as appreciated in the Linux community as in other environments.If you have questions for us please don’t be afraid to through them out there.Thanks again.

  108. Wolfgang says:

    My girlfriend is using Linux and loves to play online-games. Most of them runs under Flash. But more and more of them require Flash Version 8. She is very sad because she canยดt play a lot of games now.Please, finsh your work and bring us a flash player Version 8 or higher. And please, do that soon, very soon.

  109. gego says:

    well… to open source flash mey be one awnser.but to have a well-trusted crew of linux comunety members to help u guys mey help. wen i say well-trusted i mean it!————————————–do never chmod 777 your hard drive….. |————————————–

  110. LrgrThnLf says:

    *sigh* I run linux on my home desktop as my primary OS and linux as my only desktop OS at work at the moment.Every day we linux users lose a new site to flash 8.. flash 9.. Text not appearing, video not appearing.. applets not loading at all..I had to jump through all sorts of hoops to get fonts to display in Debian distro after it was found that font paths are hard coded into flash player 7.0.65 post migration to XOrg from XFree86..I like linux.. I feel comfortable in the environment, but can really see how a lack of compatability for something that’s become a pseudostandard in web interactivity will kill certain things.I mean.. you can see flash players on cellphone devices now – surely the cellphone manufacturers aren’t accepting old plugins.Meanwhile the main core tech marches on and a whole army of users, including some who don’t even know they’re using linux, like airport internet kiosks and other embedded devices etc. lose out.

  111. Diego says:

    Hello, I`m from Mexico & I`m linux user since 2 years ago. Its difficult at the beginning, but is a wonderful platform. I know that in Linux there are hundreds of way to do XYZ, but maybe you should try to probe one, and put in your documentation which was the way you use. I don`t wanna press you, because I know that you`re doing your job, but please, try and give us flash for Linux :)Yo should try to ask for help to the Linux comunity ๐Ÿ™‚