Apple's iPad — a broken link?

As I drove by Yerba Buena Theater in San Francisco this morning, I couldn’t help but be impressed. Apple certainly has the ability to excite people with great products, and with the iPhone they even managed to generate momentum for an entire product category. So it’s no surprise that the iPad looks like it’s a pretty good new device.

It was really exciting to see some of the technologies that Adobe has contributed to, like PDF and ePub support, taking center stage in the launch. Adobe technology is at the center of virtually every print and digital workflow, so undoubtedly a lot of what you¹ll see getting delivered to the iPad will have originated in Adobe creative software.

But, as a picture posted on Engadget shows (below), and many others have reported, there’s something important missing from Apple’s approach to connecting consumers to content.

iPad Flash Plugin Error

It looks like Apple is continuing to impose restrictions on their devices that limit both content publishers and consumers. Unlike many other ebook readers using the ePub file format, consumers will not be able to access ePub content with Apple’s DRM technology on devices made by other manufacturers.  And without Flash support, iPad users will not be able to access the full range of web content, including over 70% of games and 75% of video on the web.

If I want to use the iPad to connect to Disney, Hulu, Miniclip, Farmville, ESPN, Kongregate, or JibJab — not to mention the millions of other sites on the web — I’ll be out of luck.

Adobe and more than 50 of our partners in the Open Screen Project are working to enable developers and content publishers to deliver to any device, so that consumers have open access to their favorite interactive media, content, and applications across platform, regardless of the device that people choose to use.

To follow more from the Flash Platform Team about developments on all mobile devices, follow us at @Flash_Platform

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393 thoughts on “Apple's iPad — a broken link?

  1. The only reason I will not buy an ipad is because of the lack of flash. Please adobe work with google on a ipad killer.

  2. However the iPad, like the iPhone, will be able to access HTML5 video content. YouTube and Vimeo, two of the largest video sharing sites around, both support the future of the web technologies in embracing HTML5 video, and both sites should work just fine on the iPad. Moving forward as web developers, we should see more and more sites embrace HTML5 video over Flash video. It is the new standard, and isn’t proprietary or controlled by any one vendor.

    With upcoming web technologies — including canvas, HTML5 video and audio, CSS3, local storage and much more — we will see the proprietary software of Flash fade away for much more powerful and accessible content. The iPad/iPhone/iPod touch gives us a valuable customer base to target with these technologies that will push other browsers to move forward.

  3. The problem is that Flash is notoriously CPU intensive. There’s a reason Flash blockers are in the Top 100 Firefox add-ons.

    Flash isn’t available on Android yet either, and this has nothing to do with being prevented from deploying it.

    Lets face it, Flash would be on the iPad and iPhone if it ran properly.

  4. Perhaps if Flash on the Mac set a better example of not being cumbersome and resource hungry, Apple would be more inclined to allow its use on the iPad and iPhone.

    Watching a Flash video on my MacBook will run the battery down faster and cause more noise from the fans than pretty much any other activity.

  5. I don’t see the issue, I quite like the fact that this may help push developers in the right direction to use open standards. The HTML5 versions of YouTube and Vimeo show perfectly that Flash isn’t needed for video as it once was. Other technical demos such as those on Chrome Experiments show that HTML5/Canvas/Javascript can be just as animated and all done in-browser.

    In the recent Adobe video previewing Flash on the Nexus One/Android, all the demo showed was how adverts would now be visible on the National Geographic site, I can really live without that thanks. It’s just become a tool to create advertising annoyances (auto-play video/audio)

    Flash, as I see it, has had it’s day.

  6. I have to admit that I’m not sorry that yet another DRM technology might run in to problems. The sooner DRM is finnished with, the better.

  7. While Apples closed buisness model is no surprise, i feel it necessary to point out that half the sites you mention as examples have far better options than flash for offering their content.

  8. > Disney

    My 5 year old can drop her Nintendo DS all she wants, I’m not lettering her play with my iPad so I can enjoy a cracked screen because she dropped it by accident.

    > Hulu

    They are going to paywall model anyway so I don’t care.

    > Miniclip

    Got Youtube

    > Kongregate

    Got App Store games that I can play even when I’m not connected.

    > ESPN

    I’ll sub to their new digital magazine built especially for iPads which they are working on.

    > JibJab

    People record it and put it on Youtube anyway. If they don’t want to change, people will find a way to view their content or if its too much trouble, move to some other ‘JibJab’ competitor that does.

    In the end HTML5 will win out, people will build games in Javascript taking advantage of Canvas, SVG, or soon the native 3D rendering engines (FireFox supports it now).

    Technology evolves and in some ways I think Flash is like the RIAA in its attempts to maintain its grip on its existing business models. Flash had its day, it was good, but time and technology marches on. Lead, Innovate, or get out of the way.

  9. I’ve been looking all over the webtubes, and I can’t find anywhere that indicates what kind of DRM (if any!) that Apple’s iBooks will use. What’s your source for that? Has Apple announced that they’re using DRM, if so, what kind?

  10. You’d get more support from the Apple faithful if Flash wasn’t a joke on Mac OS X. Everytime I see that the Flash plugin has crashed only re-inforces my opinion that Apple made the right choice.

    If you can’t make Flash responsive and stable on a desktop computer, with a desktop processor what am I supposed to think about your ability to deliver in the mobile sphere?

  11. You know, as a guy who has 3 Macs running in his house, the real question isn’t, “Why doesn’t the iPad/iPhone run Flash?”

    It’s, “Why doesn’t Flash run well on Macs?”

    Because if Adobe can’t be bothered to make Flash work properly on the millions of Macs out there, why should I believe that they’ll put a lot of time and effort into the much smaller iPad/iPhone market?

  12. And Disney, Hulu, Miniclip, Farmville, ESPN, Kongregate and JibJab will move away from Flash and to either HTML5 video or native applications if the iPad becomes as popular as the iPhone.

    Your Open Screen Project is a spear head to ensure the continued use of Flash where it doesn’t belong. I’ve created Video for Everybody, which does truly play video “across platform, regardless of the device that people choose to use” because it uses HTML5 video where available and falls back to Flash where not available, all without JavaScript. Video for Everybody plays on the iPhone and by extension the iPad.

  13. Seems like a feature, not a bug. I had Flash (8, i think) on my Nokia N800 and the whole machine would grind to a halt when it was triggered.

  14. Could you please explain how the Open Screen Project is not as proprietary and limiting as Apple’s iPad decision? It seems that it is focused on making Flash, a proprietary product, a true standard? Even if it works on all devices it is still owned and controlled by Adobe.

  15. Quote from Daring Fireball:

    “So Jobs’s demo of the NYT’s web site showed the “missing Flash” icon in several spots. If you think Apple didn’t expect that, you’re nuts. Apple is not embarrassed by iPhone OS’s lack of Flash.”

  16. As a developer, every day i pray flash is on its way out. It’s awful. Video? Hello HTML 5 who needs flash.

  17. YouTube and Vimeo both have HTML5 H.264 players, and both look much better than Flash video. It seems Apple’s designed these devices for the future, and the larger the audience without Flash grows, the more these sorts of large web video sites will make HTML5 players. But I think you know that, and isn’t that really why you bothered posting this article in the first place?

  18. I think I’ll just wait for HTML5 and H.264 to catch on. I’m tired of Flash making my Mac go bananas and draining my battery. The iPad, however, seems really nice.

  19. Have your company ever heard anything about _open_ HTML5 standart, which was developed to provide to any user on any platform _free_ media content? What about CSS/JS? This three open technologies, developed in touch with a big community can fully replace Flash at interactive applications place, and supported or suppose to be supporting in any modern browsers. We are really wouldn’t to be in need of the Flash in the nearby future.

  20. I regret to have to put it quite this way… I know you guys work hard, but I really hope Flash never makes it into any of these devices.

    Supporting Flash is neither in the interests of Apple from a business perspective, nor in those of the greater Internet community.

    I’m a very big proponent of Progressive Enhancement, and — sadly — Flash doesn’t fit that puzzle. If anything, Flash is the leading violator of that enhancement design methodology.

    So really, Hulu, et al, need to move to HTML 5, which degrades to a Flash player when unavailable.

  21. I though the internet was based on standards.



    I must have missed it when Adobe submitted flash as a Standard.
    Oh. Wait.

  22. Yeah, that’s what people want on their new Tablet from Apple – a plugin that chews through CPU cycles and battery life, and crashes all the time.

    YouTube and Vimeo are both offering HTML5 native H.264 video to webkit clients now. I doubt your “75%” claim as it is, but lets see where it’s at in 12 months time?

    As for flash games – the only thing more annoying than flash games is flash ads!

  23. You’ll be out of luck w/re to Disney, Hulu, and some other video sites for now. This is going to change.

    75% of video games on the _web_, 0% of video games on the OS X mobile platform. My experience is yeah, my son was a little like “oh, miniclip doesn’t work?” until I showed him all the stuff available in iTunes. The platform giveth and the platform taketh away, whether this is sustainable for both platforms (flash as the dev/delivery and iPhone as the consuming) or just one remains to be seen. I get the beauty of Flash. I made a living for a number of years off Director back when. Flash took that and amplified it but there are problems … it’s not all roses. I am glad it’s all being considered.

  24. You evidently know something about Apple’s iBookstore DRM that we don’t, since it’s not live yet and unannounced. Nice!

  25. So glad (and unsurprised) that iPad doesn’t have Flash. Hopefully, this’ll be what kills it.

  26. Flash is a huge problem on my MacBook Pro. It’s painfully unstable, and makes demands on my processor that limit my ability to do other tasks. It’s pretty much my only consistent cause of browser crashes. The moment I learned I could turn it off on YouTube a few days, I did, and I look forward to being able to do the same with other web video.

    I used to like Flash a lot, and I use a variety of Adobe products. If you want Apple to support your technology, make it work.

  27. Why do I want Flash on this device? So it can crash my browsers (Firefox & Safari) like it continuously does on my multiple Macs? We cannot be rid of Flash soon enough for me and I think the handwriting is on the wall for Adobe with HTML5. Move on Adobe or get out of the way.

  28. Flash is dying. Get used to it. HTML5 will kill Flash. Better get on board instead of fighting the future. This article talks like an enemy in defeat.

  29. You know, if Flash weren’t such an absolute resource hog pile of crap on OS X, it might have a chance of showing up on the iPad and iPhone.

    But on the same computer running Windows and OS X, Flash maxes out the CPU on OS Xto do the same tasks that breeze along just fine on Windows. And don’t say OS X is solely to blame, because I can watch full-screen h.264 video all day and barely tax my CPU.

    Every Mac owner knows Flash stinks on the Mac. You guys make it, so make it work properly. Then maybe you’ll get a shot to run it on the iPad.

  30. Well, while I do consider Adobe to be an innovative company I also know that Flash is horrifically buggy. Not only that, it’s a security nightmare.
    So, I am not surprise when Apple doesn’t support Flash on the iPad (and the iPhone).

  31. “without Flash support, iPad users will not be able to access the full range of web content, including over 70% of games and 75% of video on the web.
    If I want to use the iPad to connect to Disney, Hulu, Miniclip, Farmville, ESPN, Kongregate, or JibJab — not to mention the millions of other sites on the web — I’ll be out of luck.”

    I think Apple’s decision to support only open web standard is completely reasonable. It’s the producers who are making the restriction by forcing the use of proprietary technology (Flash), causing both themselves and the consumers to suffer.

  32. Instead of moaning about Apple not including Flash support, why don’t you, Adobe, do something about it… It’s your source code, open it up, and then maybe Apple will consider compiling it and adding it to their restricted OS. Heck you haven’t even built a stable 64bit version of Flash yet. And if your answer is “pfft, no, why would be want to do that?” then that is exactly the same response Apple give you to to want to put “dirty” unknown code on their system.

  33. Yeah, but I want to get 10 hours of battery life with the iPad. Not 2 or 3 because of Flash’s terrible OS X performance. With HTML5 and h264 it’ll all work out, without Flash.

  34. Apple is not embarrassed about its lack of Flash support. In fact, it is pioneering support for open standards over proprietary plugins that still screw up browsers in OS X. This is Adobe’s problem, not Apple’s.

  35. “Adobe and more than 50 of our partners in the Open Screen Project are working to enable developers and content publishers to deliver to any device, so that consumers have open access to their favorite interactive media, content, and applications across platform, regardless of the device that people choose to use.”

    This is the same Adobe that produces Digital Editions, which doesn’t allow me to read the same eBook on two different computers, let alone two different types of devices?

    The DRM on books comes from the publishers and not the technology providers. It’s the reason that porting eBooks across computers pales next to the difficulty of finding an online store that’ll sell most of them to me, since I’m not in the US.

  36. For video content, you’ll only “be out of luck” until the sites that currently use Flash-wrapped video begin to deploy support for H.264 and the HTML5 video tag. Preliminary support is already being rolled out by YouTube and Vimeo. More will follow.

  37. The sooner Flash dies off the better. Nothing has caused more crashes on my computer than that buggy, crappy software and nothing maxes out both cores on my processors the way flash does. I can run World of Warcraft w/ all graphics settings maxed and not max out my CPU, open 1 flash video embed from youtube and my fans kick on while the CPU goes nuts trying to execute Adobe’s shitty code.

    Youtube has started offering html5 to get rid of flash (, hopefully more sites will follow in their footsteps and we can rid the world of this buggy, proprietary crap and move to open standards that aren’t controlled by a single, money hungry company like adobe.

    I’ll be taking a screenshot of this and if it’s removed from the site, slashdot will have a nice article about adobe censoring it’s opponents.

  38. haha


    the broken link was a big middle finger

    last gasps of a finally dying technology

  39. Well, as I am a 3 year Mac user I know how CPU intensive Flash is on Mac OS X (e.g. Video 60-100%). This is to which reason? Apple blaims Adobe, Adobe does blame Apple. Fact is that such an CPU intensity would decrease both iPod Touch’s and iPad’s battery life, thus I guess Apple excludes it.
    So what is the real reason for high CPU usage of Flash on Mac OS X while same actions only use little CPU on a Windows machine? There re numerous entries all over the web but YET for a very long time no real solution.

  40. Flash causes the CPU on my Core2 Duo Macbook to hit well over 100% CPU load, it heats up and the fans have to go crazy just to cool it down. I have seen the exact same thing happen on various Linux laptops too, though the Windows version of Flash appears to run without throttling the CPU.

    I’m certainly not alone with this problem, I’ve come across many, many similar complaints from people across the internet. What makes you think with this kind of effect it wouldn’t fry the CPU?

    Oh and by the way I have been using Google Chrome for 2 days now and so far flash has crashed four times. Thankfully Chrome sandboxes it and let’s me know when it has crashed but I have to wonder how many times Flash has been responsible for crashing my other browsers.

  41. I’m a very heavy Flash developer – though for web sites, not for apps. For one-off sites that are very limited in scope, like portfolios or some stores, it works great. I love the total design control. However, Macromedia screwed you guys royally by leaving you with a codebase that is from the 90s and sucks all but an 8-core bone dry on a page with even a couple of ads because it’s based on Director/Shockwave – it’s very, very resource heavy and aimed at programmers, not the user. I don’t blame Apple one bit for leaving it off, we developers will all decide what to do about it. Adobe needs to rewrite Flash from the ground up to be A) an Adobe app with all the requisite user-focus, and B) much, much more efficient – if it wants to stay in the game. Otherwise Adobe & Flash will simply be abandoned.

  42. How about you make Flash not a pile of junk and then maybe Apple would integrate it?

    Every website I use with Flash – I hate.

    I hope that YouTube and Vimeo switch to html5 ASAP. Flash is what ruins the internet experience. We’ve got killer rendering engines and super fast javascript engines. We’ve got HTML5 so we can work offline. And then there is Flash.

    Every time my PC hangs I can guarantee its because I’ve left a flash website open.

    It literally blows my mind that a multi-billion $ company can produce such an engine and think it warrants a place on the iPhone.

  43. As someone who consumes and creates Flash content, I could not be happier with Apple’s unwillingness to support it. This is not so much an anti Adobe issue for me but more a ‘future of the web’ issue. Flash had a good run, but it’s time to put these childish things aside and get on with the hard work of building a better web.

    There’s nothing stopping Adobe from doing the same except nostalgia.

  44. The web is continuing to move towards open standards. HTML5 and javascript allow a designer to do so many awesome things on the web now. So I ask, why is Flash still relevant?

  45. My question is if they included it in the iPad or iPhone, wouldn’t it be worse than the Flash implementation for OSX? I wince whenever I try to make Flash go full screen in OSX and I can’t tell you the number of times Flash has crashed Safari for me. I know this is partially Apple’s fault, but can you blame them for excluding a glitchy product that seems to crash half as often as it works? I guess a simpler implementation is for Hulu, et al to follow YouTube’s example and offer a reasonable alternative to Flash for video.

  46. Why doesn’t the Flash team make Flash not perform like totally crap on Mac OS X before pining against Apple’s hesitance towards making it available on its other platforms?

  47. Flash is the single worst piece of technology on the web. Hopefully the iPad will be another nail in its coffin.

  48. Until Apple *buys* Adobe, there’s *zero* chance of Flash on iPhone OS devices. Get over it.

    Besides, there are 40 million iPhones out there. And they’re all using the mobile web. Seems like the assumption that Flash is ubiquitous is delusional.

  49. Well, the Flash player plugin is an absolute disaster on every platform, both feature-wise and performance-wise. (e.g. There is no native support for the mouse wheel on the Mac)

    The flash player plugin is also one of the top reasons for all browser crashes on all platforms. (Look at and for pre- and post-2.0 releases of all Mozilla browser crashes)

    It’s no surprise that Apple is going out of their way to not include flash on the iPad or the iPhone/iPod Touch. They don’t want some half-assed attempt at a proprietary and slow plugin to ruin the experience of their devices.

    Fix those problem and then you can have a place to talk.

  50. The iPhone and iPad are strikingly different devices from traditional computers. I think a number of factors including the polish of the UIs, the ubiquity the iPhone has attained in its scant three years of existence, and the intuitiveness of the UI metaphors hide that a bit from us, but its true.

    Using an iPhone or iPad with your finger is not like using OS X with your mouse and keyboard. It’s not. In fact, fingers work terribly with WIMP interfaces (for proof, see every other tablet ever designed).

    I think even Flash’s most ardent defenders would acknowledge that Flash apps are likely to have extremely idiosyncratic UIs. That’s one of Flash’s strengths: it makes it relatively easy to build a completely bespoke UI to a wide range of computer users, making only the assumption that they have a mouse and a keyboard.

    Ignoring the various technical and strategic reasons why Apple might want to avoid Flash on the iPhone (HTML5 and Webkit’s replacement of most Flash features with open standards, poor Flash performance on OS X, general plugin reliability, complete control of the software stack that delivers iPhone OS user experiences modulo Maps, Flash power consumption, etc.), how do you guys propose that Flash would actually _work_ on the iPhone?

    Say I go to Kongregate or eBaumsworld or some other Flash game site. How am I supposed to interact with these games? “use arrow keys to navigate, spacebar to jump.” Useless. “click on all the missiles before they hit you.” There’s no way the iPhone can touchify the UIs either, because they are all bespoke, and they are all built under the assumption that the user is using a traditional computer.

    It seems a bit disingenuous to continually bang the “Apple is locking Flash out of the iPhone” drum, when aside from the aforementioned strategic issues for Apple, it sincerely looks to me that excluding Flash video, 95% of Flash content would be useless on iPhone OS devices. I’m not trying to be a “SCREW FLASH!” guy here, but seriously, how would it work? I wish Hulu would work, but running Youtube in Flash mode uses 4x as much compute resources on my Macbook Pro as HTML5 mode does, so honestly, I’d rather get more people to switch to h.264 or something else that’s designed in a webbier way than Flash. I get that it’s got a lot to do with Apple’s failure to make public APIs to the hardware acceleration they use in h.264 decoding, but…that’s still the state of affairs.

    Anyway, I’m all ears.

  51. Welcome to my nightmare.

    As a designer/developer I’ve been stuck using Adobe products over the past ten years. And over that ten years Adobe has gone from an exciting producer of quality tools to a Windows lackey that continues to put out subpar products as well as completely neglect the Mac platform in some instances, e.g., LiveCycle on OS X Server.

    This is one case where someone actually has some power in the matter. Adobe’s ability to screw with others on a whim thanks to their closed, proprietary web standard combined with their marketing idiosyncrasies is being challenged and Adobe doesn’t like it. I suppose turnabout is fair play. Frustrating isn’t it? Now you know how frustrated some Mac-based Adobe users have been for years now. While I was once an Adobe advocate, I’ve slowly been pushed (by Adobe no less) to the other side of the spectrum. Looking back it’s actually an intriguing change to witness, so slow, so subtle, yet so real.

    I hope one day Adobe actually considers hiring at least one engineer that knows something about Objective-C, how refreshing and exciting it would be to see Adobe actually leverage some of Apple’s great technologies as well as modern technologies like 64-bit!

  52. I don’t blame Apple at all. Not one bit.

    Don’t play the victim card. Apple refuses to include Flash for two simple reasons both of which are fixed with a single answer:

    1. Flash Crashes – Flash is one of the top reasons computers crash regardless of platform. It’s no surprise that every browser has been re-designed to isolate problem-causing plug-ins as independent
    2. Flash is Proprietary, closed, and by a single company. It is dangerous giving so much power over content on the Internet to one company. Apple has its own, not entirely selfless reasons, for avoiding technology they cannot directly control.

    Both these problems that keep Flash out of Apple’s devices would be solved by making the Flash format an OPEN STANDARD that everyone can improve upon. That manufacturers and developers can truly integrate into their own products rather then dropping a shoddy pre-fab version into. Moreover it returns the Web to the standards-based vision originally intended. Not the proprietary web with content delivered via proprietary, inefficient, and frankly unreliable method that Flash represents.

    Hope is on the horizon as HTML5 promises to replicate much of what Flash already does for video in a way that is based on open-standards that anyone can interface with and improve. YouTube opening a beta for their Flash 5 site already shows the massive potential and an incredible performance boost for anyone using that version of the site. You can opt-in/out to the beta here:

    Adobe, I’m afraid this is a pissing contest you simply cannot win without changing your strategy to align with the ideals the web was built upon: openness.

  53. Is the amount of money spent acquiring Macromedia’s vast collection of afterthoughts the thing that’s preventing Adobe from realizing just how horrible 90% of those 70% of games and 75% of video on the web are? With the exception of Lightroom (or so I think) every single one of your applications currently shipping forces Flash down everybody’s throat in one way or another whether they want it or not, and the results are quite universally disastrous in terms of both UI consistency and usability. The fact that some people are saying they’ve had enough shouldn’t really come as much of a surprise.

  54. I have to say, I am a Flash & Flex developer, and I am glad Flash is not on my iPhone. Flash performance is absolutely not to the required level for a mobile device. Maybe if Adobe stopped spending so much time and resources on the 30+ side projects on Adobe Labs (most of which will never result in a product) and started spending time and resources into really making Flash the highest-performing, most-stable cross-platform solution for web and desktop deployment like they tout, then they would have something that needed to be on all mobile devices.

    The Flash platform grew to its current level of ubiquity through necessity, not choice. Adobe has a lot of work to do to keep that need from being completely negated by HTML5 and other open technologies.

  55. From Adobe’s view do you believe Apple is trying to push content providers (websites) towards their QuickTime format over Flash; or is this move related more closely with the lack of stability (either perceived or real) in Flash Player?

  56. I think that’s a good thing. The usual flash out there is not built for a touch screen, Flash is slow, buggy and full of security leaks. I have disabled viewing Flash content in my Web browser. I even can’t remember the last time I really want to see or use Flash content.

  57. Until Adobe cleans up their act, or more to the point their CODE, expect more of the same from Apple.

    Flash will continue to provide a “Spring Surprise” (to borrow from Monty Python) to users–expecting to pop a nice chocky in their mouth and getting their cheeks pierced.

    Flash has always been hit and miss for me, both from a developer aspect as well as a content consumer. Site developers that rely solely on ANY technology to sell their wares, or whatever, limits themselves and the visitor–the argument goes both ways.

  58. How about making a version of Flash software that produces an HTML5 output that would work on the iPhone and/or iPad. This would enable you to allow your content publishers (customers) to provide their content in both formats, SWF and standard HTML5.

  59. You know what imposes a restriction? Flash. And how it’s a trainwreck on OS X. The only thing I see in crashlogs nowadays is FlashEnforceSecurity crashes.

    You had your day. Your time is almost up. Apple’s just saving me the effort of having to install a Flash blocker.

  60. Okay, not to be mean, but I blame Adobe for this too. Anyways, right now, on my Mac I have “ClickToFlash” installed, which stops all flash from showing unless I click on that specific element. I think this is the better idea for the iPad and even the iPhone. This way the RAM and CPU aren’t pushed to load all the Flash unless I tell it to, when I want to.

  61. Not having Flash is at times inconvenient, but some time ago I installed the “ClickToFlash” plugin (it prevents the browser from loading the Flash plugin until I click on the “box” containing Flash), and it has done wonders for the stability of my browsers (Firefox and Safari). So I can see how Apple might be reluctant to let Flash and other third-party plugins on their new devices. (I’d like Apple to develop their own ClickToFlash-like protocol for third-party plugins.)

  62. You don’t get it do you?
    We don’t want flash.

    Buggy, slow, everytime it shows up on my MBP my fans come on, and for what, a simple video that quicktime & vlc handle, or a retro style game?

    I like the idea of a cool running, 10 hour iPad.
    I don’t want one that burns my lap and goes dead halfway through a movie.

  63. Is Flash video that big of a deal when YouTube and Vimeo are opening HTML5 video options? I’d say it’s just games that will have to worry (but that doesn’t matter as much since its a platform that many Flash-based games wouldn’t translate well to – no right click, or regular click for that matter, and keyboard control wouldn’t work well).

  64. I am ecstatic that the iPad and iPod and iPhone do not support Flash. I removed it from both and laptop and desktop and am very happy with my choice.

    I only hope that other devices stop supporting it and look forward to a Flash free internet.

  65. Goodriddance! We don’t need your crappy Flash technology anyway. I want my CPU cycles to do something meaningful, not get wasted by your sub-par plugins.

  66. Let me know when you guys can get flash to not be such a resource hog. I think that the real problem is that people have used flash as a crutch for too long to develop content for the internet when there are far better resources on the internet for doing a lot of the things people want to do feature wise without the cost of having to purchase an entire adobe suite to develop for. That’s just my opinion and I’m sticking to it.

  67. hahahahaaa!! firefox mobile disabled flash support due to… wait for it… PERFORMANCE!

    the money quote: “We’ve decided to disable plugin (not to be confused with add-ons, which are supported) support for this release. The Adobe Flash plugin used on many sites degraded the performance of the browser to the point where it didn’t meet our standards.”

  68. How often do you folks approve comments? Because I’m surprised that nobody has anything to say about this shockingly disingenuous post and know that my comment hasn’t shown up yet. Is Adobe unwilling or unable to respond to criticism?

  69. I think its outrageous and a major mistake they haven’t supported Flash on the iPad at launch. If there’s one missing feature that keeps me from buying or recommending it, the lack of Flash is the #1 issue.

    I understand why they did it with the iPhone to protect their platform and App market while they grew their developer base, but there’s really no excuse for it now and it’s only hurting their customers.

  70. Can you guys PLEASE fix Flash for OS-X so that my fans don’t kick up to maximum when I watch a YouTube video?

    I would bet the entire reason Flash isn’t on the iPhone or iPad is because of how processor hungry it is in OS-X. I don’t want my iPhone battery to die in 30 minutes because a flash ad appeared on my phone. And please don’t tell me “Apple won’t let us use a hardware feature” – you have engineers, figure it out! Find a way to make Flash less processor intensive, and then you have an argument.

    Figure it out. You guys should be smart enough to do that…

  71. even though i’m a longtime mac user, the lack of flash support on the iphone (which i also own) and now the ipad keeps it from being a true web browsing tool.

    as long as flash isn’t supported, i have no interest in the ipad.

  72. > without Flash support, iPad users will not be able to access the full range of web content, including… 75% of video on the web.

    That 70% doesn’t include Vimeo or Youtube, both of which now support HTML video.

    > consumers will not be able to access ePub content with Apple’s DRM technology on devices made by other manufacturers.

    Based on what? I saw nothing to suggest ePub files from non-Apple sources won’t play on the iPad. It’s no different than playing music and video on an iPhone that’s not from the iTunes store. Apple makes buying from their online stores convenient. That’s not monopolistic, that’s just common sense.

    > If I want to use the iPad to connect to Disney, Hulu, Miniclip, Farmville, ESPN, Kongregate, or JibJab — not to mention the millions of other sites on the web — I’ll be out of luck.

    Or just be patient. Youtube and Vimeo get it. Hulu et al will too, soon. I just wonder when Adobe will get it.

  73. If you think anyone besides you at Adobe cares that Apple doesn’t support flash on their devices, you’re, sadly, mistaken. Maybe if you had actually properly supported the Mac over the years and worked to meet Apple’s technology updates, you wouldn’t be in this predicament. Flash is still 32-bit, right? And that’s why they had to create a completely new architecture to support it in Safari, right? Why on earth would they want to deal with that on their shiny new devices?

  74. Assuming anyone wants a proprietary piece of buggy code running on their computer… I regularly disable all flash on all of the computers I use and administer.

  75. Besides, If you think that Steve Jobs’ address didn’t count on such ‘stupid little detail’… you are dead wrong.

  76. As much as I love flash ads, I do enjoy a speedy experience on my iPhone, and look forward to an even better experience on the iPad. I haven’t missed flash ads since installing Flashblock on my Macbook Pro, or since buying my 3GS. Running Flashlite on my s60 phone was hilariously bad. No thanks.

    And for Adobe to complain about DRM is a little amusing…flash isn’t exactly an open standard, is it?

  77. Yeah … too bad Flash didn’t make it again; but then again stability & performance seem to matter — to Apple. It’s a serious issue that seems to escape each new Flash player. I really wish Chrome required a separate installation of plugins like Flash; instead of the current paradigm where I have to choose to bock content that can impede the performance and stability of my browser.

    Here’s a question for Adobe:

    Can you build a separate Flash plugin that just does H.264 playback?

    Almost all of the sites that you mention as places I’ll miss on my iPad are video centric. Can’t you just focus on that (as a starting point)?

  78. Why is it that Apple is imposing restrictions? If anything, I’d say it’s the other way around. Adobe forces you to use their technology for video? How about contributing to HTML5 & h.264 and open source technologies, Adobe?

  79. And what about Adobe’s flash-to-iphone-app tech they were talking about? How about build a bit of code into the embed method that says “Hey, you can’t see this inline, but you CAN download a native application for your device!”

  80. I have to agree with what Scott F has said above. I can’t find anything to suggest that books bought through apple’s new ibook store will be drm’d. I’m wondering if you can offer some evidence of this?

    I also don’t understand why Adobe doesn’t open source Flash if they want it to be a web standard. Calling a project Open Screen Platform implies that its open but Flash is proprietary. Could you explain Adobe’s motives in keeping Flash proprietary?


    Everyone here uses plug-ins that block Flash. And I don’t see anyone complaining that they’ve missed any content etc.

    Maybe Adobe should just get a clue. Flash is a nice idea that has been destroyed by its own poor implementation. Stability problems. Security holes. Terrible performance. Flash is nothing but a triple threat to be relegated to the bit bucket.

    Adobe, it’s 2010 and you still haven’t gotten it right. It’s time to shut it down and move on.

  82. When I use Flash on any non-Windows computer, it pegs my CPU just to play a video. And it doesn’t use multiple cores on my Mac. Pegging the CPU on an iphone or iPad would kill my battery. Why don’t you guys fix the awful performance on Linux and Mac (I admit you’re finally doing something on Windows) and then you’d get more support for your position.

  83. For me, flash is nothing but a pain. It continues to be the problem child. At some point, hopefully Adobe will understand that flash is “so over.” It was okay while it lasted, but it really is not what should be happening on a web page, let alone as an application. Yes, it is possible to do all of that, but it is hardly where people should be wasting time and resources invest in something that will not be available to deliver content everywhere.

    I can just ignore content that has flash, because, well, there’s enough content that isn’t flash to consume all the time I have to waste on “entertainment”.

  84. Why not write a version of flash that isn’t buggy and ridiculously slow on OS X? It is almost unusable, and eats all my processor cycles. I actually turn flash off in Safari on my macbook pro, and seldom need to turn it on.

  85. It’s sad that they announced they were using ePub “an open standar” and then they cripple it down restricting the use for other devices. I don’t like the iPad at all (I like the Archos 7a lot more), but I was hoping to buy some ePubs on iTunes and read them on my Sony Reader.

    But what can you expect from Apple…

  86. @ Scott
    I wouldn’t be that sure, e.g. B&N uses a special DRM for their ebooks. It’s still ePub but can be only viewed on a Nook. Wouldn’t surprise me if Apple does the same.
    And so far it doesn’t look like it’s possible to import ePub into the iBook App. Only to buy from their iBook Store.

  87. I think Adobe have two options here.

    1. Tough it out.
    Probably your current strategy. Let’s see how it goes. How’s it going by the way?

    2. Make Flash Open Source
    It’s kind of odd seeing you cite the ‘Open’ Screen Project supporting Flash. The reality is that Flash is the one Web standard, albeit de facto, that isn’t open source. Everything else, including HTML5, is.

    Making Flash open source would be a seriously ballsy move. And could well secure it’s future.

  88. Please please please Adobe, make your creative tools create standard HTML, CSS, SVG and Javascript.

    Your tools for creating content rocks! The flash player for presenting content does not, it is not even really needed anymore. Apart from the slight lack of tools, tools wich is your key skill!!

  89. ROFL. Hippocrite.

    > Adobe and more than 50 of our partners in the Open Screen Project are working to enable developers and content publishers to deliver to any device, so that consumers have open access to their favorite interactive media, content, and applications across platform, regardless of the device that people choose to use.

    So why is there still no Flash version for 64 bit IE? As I understand it, that’s Adobe’s decision not MS’s. It’s a 64 bit world now Adobe. I don’t want to use a 16 bit browser and I don’t. If a site requires flash, I just find a different one. No site is that unique.

  90. Flash on a touch device, how does that even work? What happens to rollover events?

    Sometimes, and only sometimes, I miss flash on the iPhone, but as a Flash programmer I cant imagine how you would have some flash sites, games and items even work on a touch device, unless theres something im missing?

  91. >> consumers will not be able to access ePub content with Apple’s DRM technology on devices made by other manufacturers.

    >Based on what? I saw nothing to suggest ePub files from non-Apple sources won’t play on the iPad. It’s no different than playing music and video on an iPhone that’s not from the iTunes store. Apple makes buying from their online stores convenient. That’s not monopolistic, that’s just common sense.

    Read the sentence again… It says you can’t access an ePub bought on iTunes on a non-Apple device.

  92. Scott – I think you have misread the point about ePub. You can read/move any open ePub files on anything, but you can’t move iBooks (which use Fairplay DRM presumably) onto none Apple systems.

    A bit like how iTunes movies are MPEG4 and H264 – nice open standards, also used by Flash – but wrapped in Fairplay DRM so you can’t play them elsewhere.

    Although, to be fair, there is no such thing as an open DRM standard. (A popular program is not an open standard, even if it is cross-platform, unless it has a public specification anyone can implement).

    And here’s a serious question – how come Gordon (the JavaScript Flash runtime thing) runs Flash content with less CPU usage on my OS X desktop than the Flash player does?

  93. Seriously, what’s your source for this statement:

    > without Flash support, iPad users will not be able to access … 75% of video on the web.

    With the market dominance of Vimeo and Youtube, I wouldn’t doubt that 75% of video on the web is delivered via Flash (though I’d still like to see the source), but it’s blatantly false to say that every bit of that video is inaccessible to iPad users just because the iPad doesn’t have Flash.

    Also, does anyone know what the Flash content that would have been displayed on that page was? Was it an infographic, or a related news video… or was it a punch-the-monkey ad?

  94. HEllo there,

    I would like to mention that I would not want 40% of one’s core usage to be drawn just cuzz some smart Flash developer didn’t optimize it.

    The situation is clear, at least on the Mac front: a standard quality video takes 40% of the one core’s CPU cycles. This is unacceptable and the very reason Apple shouldn’t bow to that sub-par experience on the iPhone or iPad for that matter.

    Even the 10.1 flash player beta on my Mac despite some improvements sees the CPU usage skyrocketing whenever using heavy-flash pages. On Windows however, it is not the case whatsoever.


  95. Scott F said: “Or just be patient. Youtube and Vimeo get it. Hulu et al will too, soon. I just wonder when Adobe will get it.”

    You nailed it. Flash stinks.

  96. It’s not happening, Adobe. If you want to be relevant on touch devices, start by shipping touch-ready versions of Illustrator and Photoshop for the iPad, and do it before someone else figures out that a huge glass touchscreen is excellent for drawing.

  97. Can Apple iPad users access ePub documents that are restricted by Amazon’s DRM?

    As for those sites that only offer content through Flash, they’re going to die a long, slow, painful death. People are wising up to Flash being the heaviest load on their computers, and the greatest risk factor. All of the sandboxing technology in Safari has been added due to the Flash plugin being so fragile.

    My favourite Facebook game is Bejweled Blitz, which is available as a native iPhone application. Developers who care, will be reworking their web sites to be HTML 5 compliant, and releasing other products through iPhone applications (or Java apps for the other phones on the market).

  98. I’ll keep my iPhone and iPad (when I get a second gen one) without flash thanks. It’s a pain on my iMac, don’t need that on my phone.

  99. “Or just be patient. Youtube and Vimeo get it. Hulu et al will too, soon. I just wonder when Adobe will get it.”

    Well said. I think flash is a great tool as an enhancement to standard content, but it shouldn’t be a requirement to accessing it. Web designers who provide a flash-only interface to their sites remind me of those who designed sites that require IE. Build a fully standards-compliant site first and then jazz it up with extras if you so desire.

  100. Flash not being on the ipod/iPhone/iPad is a FEATURE not a bug or omission. I block flash on my PC anyway, so i don’t notice or care when it’s not there on my phone. Other web technologies will compensate eventually.

  101. I second that, Scott. Apple wants to control the user experience and does not want vendor lock-ins and frequent crashes associated with Flash.

  102. When will Adobe make a flash version that does not eat the CPU alive on Apple platforms? Even your most current flash plugins do so on my current MacBook Pro. If you can’t get it right there, why would Apple let you on their mobile platforms to chew up CPU and battery life?

    If Flash is truly a flagship product for Adobe, why the poor engineering effort on the Apple side of the house?

  103. Dear Adobe,

    nobody need’s your broken Flash anymore. HTML5 is the future. Get over it and stop weeping.

  104. adobe’s gettin it alright… that is, right up the ‘ol tailpipe. and i’m pretty sure they know it.

    now apple, on the other hand… i’m not too sure apple’s gettin it at all. at least they sure as hell aren’t gettin it right.

    i’ve got an ipod touch and i love it. but more so i love what it *could* and definitely ***should*** be, and the only thing wrong with it *is* apple.

    i’ve had to hack the hell out of it just to get an approximation of the device i was told i was purchasing. “get the full internet (minus all the vast volume of content we’ve elected to deny you access to).” that’s just unscrupulous false advertising there.

    and now they come out with this pile as if it were a step forward? it’s not even a step to the side! too big to use comfortably anywhere but docked and decked-out like a dysfunctional, underpowered, ill-conceived netbook. wait, that’s not quite right – cuz now even netbooks support flash and multitasking. and no usb? all the flaws of an apple, none of the convenience or utility? i’m still waiting for jobs to bust out the “you just got punk’d!” but perhaps he’s planning to wait til after your purchase. or perhaps it will be unlocked with the next update (for an added charge).

    scott’s right about one thing; we should all heed his advice and just be patient. eventually apple will catch a clue, take its head out of its collective arse and put out a device worth buying. until then, apple and its fanboys can all get bent.

  105. Well, maybe it would help if you guys made a version of Flash for the Mac that doesn’t suck.

    If Apple thinks allowing background processes on iPhone OS is a bad idea because it gets in the way of battery life, I’m pretty sure that 100% CPU utilization loops on webpages that don’t even seem to do anything isn’t acceptable to them on a battery powered device.

  106. “And without Flash support, iPad users will not be able to access the full range of web content, including over 70% of games and 75% of video on the web.”

    No Flash on a Unix OS on a non Intel chip? Hmm where have I seen that before…oh yes, Linux support (amd64, mips, etc.). Adobe finally got amd64 working, but it took a while and in the interim I found the web so much more…quiet without it. Gnash just made the ads work, which was admirably ironic.

    I’ve gone Flash-free and I’m not looking back.

    Maybe the iPad’s lack of support will help rid the web of Flash.

  107. What do you mean? I think the embarassing part is for Adobe. Adobe’s flash program is so slow. It really needs to be built from the ground up. Apple is trying to push the future, and it will do that by either pushing everyone to stop using flash or to make Adobe make their application not so intensive. It won’t run on the 1GHz processor, by no doubt. I have trouble running it on a Windows 7, 2.8GHz dual core processor!

  108. Isn’t Hulu using Microsoft’s Silverlight and not Flash?

    Maybe if you were able to produce a 64bit version of Flash for Apple’s 64 bit operating system, Apple might be more inclined to give your product another look-see. Apple has been heading towards a pure 64 bit OS for seven years. Why is Flash for Mac still 32 bit?

  109. Make it “suck” less, not jump to 100% CPU, and not be the major source of browsers hanging or crashing, and it’ll have a better chance of being available on a device made in Cupertino. It’s not up to the level of excellence that Steve Jobs seems to require.

  110. Oh boo-hoo, Adobe. I can’t wait for HTML5 to gain popularity, Flash video will then be DEAD. You shouldn’t have screwed things up when you bought out Macromedia. I’m a VERY disgruntled Flash developer as you can tell, and I am disgruntled because of the way Adobe has RUINED the opportunities of Flash. You guys have totally bastardized Flash and alienated your customers. I say good for Apple to not allow Flash content on the iPhone and iPad. I hope they never integrate Flash onto their devices.

  111. I dunno how Adobe throws that kind of rock against Apple’s DRM… since they also sell DRM technologies that need a dependency of Adobe to consume DRM’d content!

  112. Agree with you completely ‘SCOTT F’, content providers want people to be able to get at their content. I bet providers are beginning to realise that having their content stuck in a proprietary format that requires a third party plugin to access was a bad idea in the first place.

    From the perspective of someone using the iPad/iPhone it looks like the site is broken rather than the device. There are a wealth of sites out there, if one doesn’t work you don’t come back you go somewhere else.

    “It is not the strongest of the species that survives, nor the most intelligent that survives. It is the one that is the most adaptable to change.”

    I think Adobe should be working on turning Flash into a platform for authoring HTML5 Canvas/JS/Video/SVG instead of trying to stick to the old ways and hold back the tides. I can imagine in a few years coming to a page that still has a swf embedded and getting that baffled and slightly nostalgic feeling one gets coming across a Java applet today.

  113. It is a very understandable decision on Apple’s part. Part of what’s needed for the iPad to fly is for the software to be stable, lightweight, and fast. Even if the fault lies in third-party software, the OS gets blamed. The current incarnations of Flash non-Microsoft platforms is none of these three.

  114. Scott, I think you’ve misread the second point. The post talks about reading Apple-bought books on some other device. Not reading open ePub on the iPad.

    I’m curious about the author’s source regarding DRM though. I assume the same, but this is the first definitive mention I’ve seen.

  115. It’s admirable to see adobe sticking up for their beloved flash and trying to pat apple on the back, while sticking it to them on the back end. The problem here is not Apple. Apple completely supports open web standards. Flash is not an open web standard. If adobe wants SO SO BAD for Apple to adopt flash support, the answer for adobe is simple. Make flash open. release the source code so that anyone can create their own flash player.

    Like Scott F mentions, YouTube and Vimeo get it, and more and more websites are also getting it. Adobe has a choice if they want flash to become a true web standard… they can either open it up so that it becomes a true and universally accepted standard…. or… they can continue their closed off and inflexible ways and watch flash content become extinct over the next few years as more and more web developers drop its use.

  116. @Scott F:

    I think you misread the comment about DRM. I believe Adrian is saying that Apple generated ePub content can’t be read on a non-Apple device.

    That is, if you buy a book in iTunes for your iPad, you won’t be able to read it on your Kindle DX.

    I agree 100% with the rest of your comment.

  117. Flash runs ‘great’ on a PC. Not so well on a Mac. It’s the single largest cause of crashes on my mac alone. It uses such a crazy amount of CPU just to watch a YouTube video. It’s no wonder Apple don’t want to put it on relatively slow devices (compared to standard computers) like the iPhone or iPad.

    Think about how much more consumer backlash Apple would receive (compared to how much they get for not supporting Flash) if mobile Safari crashed constantly.

    Make a version of Flash that runs as well on a Mac as is does on a PC, before HTML5 is more prevalent, and Flash might have a chance.

  118. Do you know what? What about using your Flash plugin, Flash servers and contens creation applications so get all web browsers to support the entirely non-propierary video content delivery system that’s HTTP/HTML5, for both OGG and MPEG4? That way, you could your leverage for something nice and good, instead of further forcing the entire world further info your monopolistic market.
    And while your at it, please put some intern on optimizing the Flash plugin for Mac. Your ordinary coders is obviously not up to the task.
    As far as I’m concerned, you dropped the ball on this and is pretty petty to blame Apple for your failure. While ignoring your own glaring performance problems of the Mac platform for a decade, did you really expect Apple to further enforce your monopoly? It’s time for you to smell Flash’s impending doom. Brace for impact!

  119. Gee, if Adobe is so concerned about not imposing restrictions, why don’t you just open source the Flash player? An open source Flash player is something that Apple would be far more likely to implement in iPhone/iPad.

    Put up or shut up.

  120. I remember when flash was big just after the boring age of the internet where websites usually contained small annoying animated GIF’s and were quite plain due to the fact that internet connections were slow. Eventually people realized that Flash was not that great for SEO and have started using other techniques for interactive websites. Places like did a good job at creating an interactive website without using Flash. Sure there is much more you can do with Flash but I find it annoying when Companies go overboard with Flash because they think it ‘looks cool’. Websites are painful whey they are filled with flash using lots of animation and sound when all I am doing is just looking for information. With the enhancements of HTML etc I will be happy not to see Flash on sites I visit. Hopefully Apple will will make people think twice when deciding whether to use flash or not.

  121. I have mixed feelings about this whole thing. Being a part-time Apple fanboy, I will say I understand that they want complete control over their hardware and software. If there was a bug in Flash for the iPad/iPhone, they have to wait for Adobe to fix it. Apple does not like waiting. I wouldn’t either.

    Trouble is, we (the consumers) are left waiting no matter what. When will Apple support Flash? When will HTML5 and H.264 replace Flash? I’ll take a stab at these: never.

    So if I want an iPad, I have to view the web the way Apple sees it, as opposed to the way the web actually is. Bummer. Not exactly “the best way to experience the web.”

  122. I’m a Mac user with Flash installed and it’s the single biggest pain in my a**.
    The result is proprietary junk and Adobe’s support of it is insulting.
    Thankfully there is ClickToFlash.
    Cut your losses Adobe and move on.

  123. I say if apple doesn’t want your products on their platform why put them there. Stop creating for apple and see how fast they change there tune.
    They don’t want to complicate things. If they are afraid of not being able to get it to work right, then they should just pass the torch to adobe and let them work the problem.
    Or at least stop saying thing like “The best web browsing experience ever” and “It just works” because when i see little blue boxes where video should be, It proves it doesn’t do either.
    I love apple products as a hole and would love to bye one of these ipads, but beside a newer less capable version of the iphone/itouch is making me wonder if it is worth the money even at its seemingly reasonable pricing. Something as simple as Flash would have had it sold to me instantly.
    So to my initial statement i know it would hurt Adobe to pull there products from apple, seeing as mac users have become so numerous. But i truly believe the gauntlet has been thrown.


  124. Or… perhaps Adobe should be taking a long hard look in the mirror. What is it about Flash that makes Apple so willing to throw the baby out with the bathwater? You do a good job of highlighting all of the positives that having Flash on the iPad would bring, but if you aren’t also looking at all of the horrors that come with Flash, you’re not really being honest with yourself.

    Can you honestly say that using Flash on your OSX device is a great experience? Or that all of the Flash you encounter when surfing the web enriches your travels? It’s been my experience that Flash comes down far closer to the side of resource pig than elegant design. And there are far more annoying instances of Flash on the internet than positive ones. 8 million downloads for a plugin that blocks Flash content should serve as a signal. Something isn’t right.

    That’s not to say I completely side with Apple on this. I think they share some of the blame as well. To talk about the best web experience for a device and completely ignore Flash is folly. Both of you should be working at delivering a better experience with Flash, so it’s something that consumers will demand.

  125. Don’t you think there are reasons why Apple chooses to not enable Flash on this platform, which are performance, security, and stability based?

  126. Personally I don’t want flash on iPhone OS. Flash sucks battery and it’s a bad deal for the cpu. In 3 years I have never feel the need of flash on my iPhone. So I approve Apple in this.

    W html5.

  127. I think Adobe has more to lose than Apple when it comes to “no Flash on iPhone/iPad”. HTML5 is moving in down the street, and it’s new neighbors YouTube and Vimeo have both already dropped fruit baskets on the front door. Of course that old curmudgeon Flash think his new neighbor is a no good hippie, and the only conversations between the two end with the phrase “Get off my lawn!”. I wonder if anybody will even attend his funeral.

  128. I have an entire post about this on my site. the tl;dr version is:

    Stop breaking my browser.

    i don’t care, in the least about how cool Flash is anymore.

    I no longer care, at all, about everything flash does. That’s been beaten out of me.

    The cool factor? nope, gone as well.

    Stop breaking my browser.

    Until the Flash plugin stops being the number one reason why my browser crashes, I will applaud and support every platform manufacturer and web site that removes the need for that plugin.

    Until the day when opening more than one page at a time that has Flash content doesn’t bog my browser in the “Labyrinth” sense of “bog”, I do not, on any level, give a hoot about alll the nifty new features Flash will have.

    For years, and version after version after version, we have seen that plugin screw our browsers into the ground like oil drills and finally, we have had enough.




    It is up to you. You make your plugin not crash my browser, i’ll stop recommending that no machine be configured without a flash blocker installed and active. Your plugin is dangerous to my users on every possible level. we won’t even get into the security debacle it has been of late, because that is almost minor.

    Stop breaking my browser.

    Until that is accomplished, nothing you and your team say or do will matter to anyone.

  129. “Adobe and more than 50 of our partners in the Open Screen Project are working to enable developers and content publishers to deliver to any device,”

    Flash makes my browser crash constantly. PDF’s will show inline in my Safari browser, but won’t in FF even with a plug-in. My business partner on a PC [IE] also can’t see my inline PDF’s I had to give up using them.

  130. Sorry, I like a platform that:
    a) Doesn’t crash,
    b) Doesn’t kill the CPU, and
    c) Isn’t tied to a vendor with a very spotty history of delivering.

    If you’re reading this and denying that performance and stability are problems, then that’s a problem right there. If you’re reading this and nodding your head and wishing management would put some focus on it, that’s a different problem. Either way, there are folks at Adobe going pretty high up that have had nothing but disdain for Apple for a decade, and shouldn’t be surprised at the result. If you haven’t noticed, this isn’t confined to Flash – your Creative Suite users haven’t been happy either. When your customer base uses you because there’s no alternative – rather than because they actually want to – you’re in trouble, whether your financials *now* show it or not.

    Sorry, Flash (and Adobe in general) have been anchors on Mac OS X for the last decade. You’ve already had a million chances and you blew it.

  131. Add to that a very small hard drive, you’ll be forced to only stream what they give you, it’s not even good for offline use since just a few mp3s, pictures, and maybe one HD movie will fill up the disk real quick.


  132. So I guess you guys better get cracking on an export-to-AJAX option in Flash, then, eh?

  133. Just a wild guess… Why, oh, why… would Apple not include Flash Player plug-ins on any of its mobile browsers?

  134. Call me cynical, but I don’t think Adobe wants Flash on the iPad just so “consumers have open access to their favorite …” blah blah. You want to own the platform and therefore the revenue. Why should Apple let you?

  135. I think the reason why Apple does not have flash on the iPad is that is is way to unstable on the Mac. 97% of the crashes in browsers on my Mac have been because of Flash Player. I have sent in well over 130 crash logs to Apple and all have flash player as why the browser crashed. It has been crashing since the updated in December 2008. Who wants to use a plug-in that will interrupt a video they are watching on Youtube or Hulu or any other similar site, even the ads have flash player in them on some sites, more ways to crash a browser because of an unstable plug-in. Also it is a cpu hog so that would make a huge battery drain. Flash content has also cause my cpu to hit over 203º f.

  136. Flash is a terrible arcane proprietary technology. In a couple of years everybody will move to HTML5!

  137. If adobe is smart enough, they should know that apple is using 64 bit compared to adobe still stuck with 32 bit. Maybe adobe is still under pressure from microsoft due to high market share of windows user. But if adobe is willing to fix their problem by porting their code to 64 bit, im sure apple is willing to include flash inside.

  138. The iPad has at least 16GB of Flash and up to 64GB…
    Oh, not that kind of Flash?
    It doesn’t need a Flash, it doesn’t have a Camera…
    Oh, not that kind of flash either…

    Do you mean ShockWave Flash? Are people still using that for anything other than cheesy webvideos and annoying Advertisements?

  139. But don’t you think like YouTube, many of these video sites will move away from Flash for Video delivery. Most people have been using iPhone/iPod touch fine without missing Flash much.

    Adobe should have done a e-book/Flash hardware. I don’t trust your OpenScreen partners to do a good job with their devices.

  140. Apple are pricks hopefully they let up someday i wont buy the Ipad until they do allow flash and the whole no multitasking thing as well it drives me nuts how restrictive they are. Communism at its finest for a mobile device company I guess I’m starting to wonder why Microsoft takes so much heat and bad press all the time when apple obviously deserves a good portion for crap like this.

  141. Thanks Adrian
    please be sure to mention that ADVERSERS with hefty expenses in rich media enabled ads are possibly being hurt more than anyone with this Apple Omission.

    It would, by rough estimates in high traffic sites with flash leaderboards – amount to millions of lost eyeballs – lost cpm’s
    This really needs to be fixed before the iPAD gets a footprint – if no other reason than it will overtly anger the very people that pay to keep the websites up. Sponsors are the most important people in our community.

    Also – pls get CS5 up and going for us, i have to convert magazine engine stuff running on touchscreens like it does really well on the HP Win 7 stuff.

  142. Thanks Adrian
    please be sure to mention that ADVERTSERS with hefty expenses in rich media enabled ads are possibly in the way of being hurt more than anyone with this Apple Omission.

    It would, by rough estimates in high traffic sites with flash leaderboards – amount to millions of lost eyeballs – lost cpm’s
    This really needs to be fixed before the iPAD gets the expected 2-3 million unit footprint – if no other reason than it will overtly anger the very people that pay to keep the websites up. Sponsors are the most important people in our community — flash creatives work for them.

    Also – pls get CS5 up and going for us, i have to convert magazine engine stuff running on touchscreens like it does really well on the HP Win 7 stuff.

  143. Thanks Adrian
    please be sure to mention that ADVERTISERS with hefty expenses in rich media enabled ads are possibly in the way of being hurt more than anyone with this Apple Omission.

    It would, by rough estimates in high traffic sites with flash leaderboards – amount to millions of lost eyeballs – lost cpm’s
    This really needs to be fixed before the iPAD gets the expected 2-3 million unit footprint – if no other reason than it will overtly anger the very people that pay to keep the websites up. Sponsors are the most important people in our community — flash creatives work for them.

    Also – pls get CS5 up and going for us, i have to convert magazine engine stuff running on touchscreens like it does really well on the HP Win 7 stuff.

  144. Why does Flash for mac use so much of my CPU’s resources and cause my fan to peg? Every.Time.

    Can you imagine what that would do to the limited capabilities of my iPhone’s CPU?

    Make your product better, then complain. Until then…

    STFU, please.

  145. I’m sure you realize that Apple is on a mission to rid the web of Flash. It amazes me that people continue to be surprised by this. That icon was placed in the middle of Jobs’ presentation on purpose and for a reason.

  146. I do not know if the Adobe make a player compatible with the ipad CPU A4.

    For Linux 64 bits, flash player was a problem until some time ago.

    Maybe the problem is not in the apple side, but in the adobe side.


  147. I prefer to see this as a revelation, not restriction, simplifications, not complication.

    Videos from YouTube and Vimeo already run better on my mac with HTML5, whenever I experience trouble on my browser — the never ending beach ball, it’s almost always caused by the Flash plugin.

    I have nothing against Flash or the content that it delivers — but flash ads are annoying, it distracts me from my purpose, reading the real content from the writers on NY Times, TIME, etc. I’d prefer seeing honest ads delivered in subtle cue rather than flashing animations across the screens.

    iPhone/iPad without Flash is like cars without lousy bumper stickers, it keeps our cars clean and most likely we’ll survive without it.

  148. Flash may be prevalent, but that doesn’t mean people want it. The web will be a better place when it doesn’t contain any Flash. Hopefully the sites you list will wise up and use more stands-compatible technology.

  149. If you are targeting a 40 million strong demographic with a high disposable income then web standards are the way to go. For everything else there’s Flash®.

  150. Well it would be nice if iPads and iPhones have flash one day, but really I’d just like flash to stop eating +100% cpu on Mac OS X too. The Mac version of flash beachballs Safari constantly such that i have installed ClickToFlash so that Safari will stop randomly crashing. I have a very powerful Macbook with a two core CPU and 4GB of RAM. Running Flash in Firefox on Windows and Mac OS X will make it plain to anyone who tries it that Flash on Mac OS X is much slower. In fact it’s terrible.

    So maybe you only have yourself to blame. Certainly Steve Jobs must use the web, and certainly he does so on a Mac and certainly he must run into the same Flash inefficiencies that all Mac users I know personally hate. Flash’s terrible performance on Mac OS X has made the front page of Reddit and Digg. John Gruber of Daring Fireball has discussed it. It’s not an isolated issue. If you want Flash to have a greater presence on Apple products, maybe you should realize that Flash in Safari is the product’s ambassador to the executives at Apple, and it hasn’t been very good at its job.

  151. HAHA!

    Maybe if you stopped writing such CRAP mac OSX software (Adobe CS4 suite crashes frequently, has some of the worst UI mistakes ever seen, is inconsistently implemented; Flash is a SLOW, BUGGY NIGHTMARE) and ignoring Apple and it’s customers pleas for improvements, Apple would stop ignoring you in their new devices. Just a thought, you know…..

  152. It sounds to me like both Adobe and Apple are playing a standard business game for control that hurts consumers primarily. Adobe wants to keep proprietary control of Flash and Apple wants to keep the same proprietary control over their OS’s low-level APIs as well as force people to use more-open video formats. It’s a game of chicken and I hope they both blink even though Gruber makes some good points over at Daring Fireball.

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  154. Sry, Guys i’m really not an big Apple-Fan, but Flash is dead, sooner or late (hope sooner).
    Noone wants to see ressource-hungry, slow (except on Windows and a decent PC) plugins anymore …

  155. …if apple missed out on flash until today… given their army of engineers that most probably built a solution some time ago, I have the suspicion that it´s probably something political in apple that stops them from deploying flash on the iPhone/iPod touch/iPad platform, and should this be true, I guess no pressure from users in the world will ever make that change.
    I am sure there are some investigators digging into the story and I will be very interested to read their findings.
    Might be license fees from adobe or that Steve Jobs has plans to assimilate adobe who knows. Whatever it is, I am not pleased with the fact that users are the victims on that corporate politics battlefield. Corporations have developed an ego, which is the mostly the ego of their CEO. Sad that the buddhist philosophy is not being considered a better way there.

  156. I think adobe should read through these comments and understand the vast majority of people are glad flash has been left out of iPhone and iPad.

    Like many have said already, instead of whining adobe should fix the plug ins and open up the code so it can become a standard.

    Propriety plugins are a thing of the past, the internet has been moving away from them for years now, and it is for the benefit of every internet user that we do as soon as possible.

  157. Seriously though,
    WebKit (and Opera) are the only Web Rendering engines that are 100% standard compliant. Of the Dozens on WebKit Implementations, only Safari and Mobile Safari (and a few other niche browsers) pass the Acid3 Test.
    Apple are all about Open Standard Compliance.
    ShockWave Flash (and Silverlight, and WMV) is not an Open Standard, it (like Silverlight and WMV) is a Proprietary Closed standard controlled by one company. Apple are not likely to support a Proprietary Closed Standard, unless the are absolutely forced to, and then they are going to try and get it as open as possible.
    (PDF is a Proprietary Open Standard)

  158. Flash is dead!! Long live HTML5. The days of Adobe monopoly is over!!!!! Can wait until i can remove Flash from my Mac once and for all!!!!!

  159. I was going to comment how whiney it sounded for a large corp. such as Adobe to complain about Apple being unfair, when in reality it’s Adobe’s own fault for making software that sucks on OS X.

    Then I read the first 500 comments. Guess I didn’t need to say it after all.

  160. Lets face it:

    Adobe Flash was cool in the first years of this century. But today it’s lack and a pain in the ass! That’s why FlashBlockers are in the Top 5 prowser plugins all over the browser market.

    Flash cookies don’t support any kind of privacy at all. You have to correct privacy settings via Adobe website! Unbelievable!

    New features made Flash bloatware and it’s not a secret, that chinese hackers love installed flash plugins!

    Its bloated, slow, insecure, nobody wants it anymore!

    With HTML5 there is also no need to install an Adobe Flash plugin anymore. Within the next days, I will deinstall Flash. Safari runs well on YouTube/html5beta


  161. Right… as if DRM is Apple’s choice in the first place. It’s a demand from the publishers, and not something Apple can do something about. Only after the iBook Store proved itself a succes can they push against DRM…. just like the Music Store in the beginning.

    As for Flash;
    I know Apple isn’t opening their API’s for 3rd party developers, which sucks. On the other hand, even at the time where Hardware acceleration didn’t even exist, Flash on OSX has never been something to write home about. And HTML5 is peeking around the corner at both Youtube and Vimeo, so it’s not like we can’t see all the videos all of a sudden either 😉

  162. Hahahaaaaaaa. The big fat ugly browser brake won’t make it to the iPad! You think Apple needs flash for it’s iPad success? Just like on the iPhone? NOT! Just like the commercials say “There’s an App for that!” there will be apps for that.


    Cheers, I. Know

  163. But as long as Flash has so poor performance on OSX I really don’t se any need for it… besides – sites targetting iPhone and iPad users will switch to HTML5 because these units are HTML-spearheads – no need to ruin the code for IE anymore.

  164. I understand why you’re pushing this but seriously, wake up and smell the coffee.

    Adobe has failed flash. It’s slow and buggy on my Mac which is why I use ClickToFlash to get rid of it. The sooner people adopt open standards for video playback the better.

    I don’t want Flash on the iPad (and in fact, I wouldn’t buy one if it had it).

  165. Hey all,

    the majority of these comments confirm my feelings regarding flash.
    As a web-developer and mac-user I am glad that apple refuses flash on their mobile devices.
    Content on the web doesn’t need flash. There may be some situations where flash is an option for very fancy design but this is as stated for design purposes NOT content!
    I like formats that contain human-readable plain text and that is the case with html, css, javascript, svg etc… Flash is no good for search engines and my OSX Textmate Editor doesn’t like it too.
    On OSX the flash performance is cruel. It is so slow and almost instantly when I go to a flash site like my macbook pro fans start to get that fast that I am wondering why my computer doesn’t hover over my desk 😉

    KR Bijan

  166. I agree with Bob Jones et al.

    Flash has always been a dog on OS X and even worse on Linux. When you’ve experienced Flash bringing a notebook to its knees and even putting the brakes on an 8-core MacPro, it’s quite easy to understand and accept, even welcome, the lack of it on the iPhone and iPad.

    Personally, I find being unable to watch the odd video on my iPhone a small price to pay for not having all those Flash ads overloading the cpu, wasting my metered traffic volume, and if it’s anything like the OS X version, crashing my browser.

    Instead of blaming Apple for ignoring Flash, Adobe should take a good look at itself. After all, the iPhone supports PDF, so it’s not that Apple has something against Adobe. and you’d think they’d need a pretty good reason to exclude so many of the top video and games sites…

    The reason is simply because Adobe’s Flash Player is nowhere near the standard Apple requires, and there’s nothing they can do about it because Flash is not an open format.

  167. I have to agree with most other comments here.

    Adobe make bad software. Flash is a resource hog and performs very poorly. CS4 is some of the worst, most buggy software I have ever used. If Adobe wrote good software, people might not react like this and Apple may consider it.

    Regardless, the Internet is moving on and HTML 5, CSS 3 & H.264 are the future, not Flash.

    For those having issues with Flash on OS X I suggest you seek out the Safari plugin, ClickToFlash, which kills it.

  168. Well Adobe, look at your Flash Plugin for Mac! Why do you think Apple Users are installing ClicktoFlash?
    After updateing to an new Mac OS X Version, i have to pay for an new version of Adobe Software (Your 2 Year old Software is not supported, we don’t care – go and buy an update!).
    I hope Flash will be dead soon.

  169. Without Flash? The same bullshit i have with my iPhone.
    No Flash, no Bluetooth. My old Motorola what is 5 years old has Bluetooth and is easy to install on my car radio.
    Applications are available, but blocked from Apple.
    Wanna see empty websites ?? BUY IT !
    I never again buy something from Apple.

  170. the Flash files are very usable for some viruses and hackers scripts. Apple cant scan all flash content for danger scripts, and just blocks this stuff. Adobe must workin on “action script” or secure players for Apple devises..

  171. It took a long time for the world to get a World Wide Web, and when we got one, it wasn’t delivered by companies like (as it was then) Macromedia because their proprietary products fragmented the market and acted as an obstacle to the kind of interoperability on any platform (which is different to “most” platforms) that HTML and HTTP gave us.

    I and many other users want the web to continue to be built on the kinds of open standard that allowed it to work in the first place. A world where a significant number of deployed devices don’t grok Flash is a healthier one, because it encourages site owners to make sure their content will work well even in the absence of proprietary plugins. If Adobe can provide exciting products that will outdo HTML5 that’s great – sites can detect those browsers that will support it and offer the Flash version. But a mainstream site showing a lego block on a standards-compliant browser is a site that has made unreasonable expectations about what should be supported by default.

    I therefore applaud Apple for putting lots of devices in circulation that remind us as site owners of our responsibility towards the standards that gave us our web.

  172. I think your comments are hitting you in the face. You said, “It looks like Apple is continuing to impose restrictions on their devices that limit both content publishers and consumers…And without Flash support, iPad users will not be able to access the full range of web content, including over 70% of games and 75% of video on the web.”

    hmmm that means all of those games and videos are rolling through a restricted platform called Flash!

    Look, I’ve been using my iPhone for almost a year and I have to say, (without trying to pile on Adobe), I don’t miss you. If you want to work on OSX and Windows platforms knock you socks off. But for users of the iPod Touch, iPhone and up coming iPad, we don’t need you software on our devices. Websites that are full of Flash are either scrubbing their sites of it or creating apps for iPhone OS devices to access them. You don’t have to worry about us, our internet experience is just fine.

    As for not being able to connect to “Disney, Hulu, Miniclip, Farmville, ESPN, Kongregate, or JibJab — not to mention the millions of other sites on the web” I think we’ll be fine. Likely Disney and ESPN will be coming out with full HTML5 sites in the near future and for the rest, if they want the Millions of iPhone users to access their sites they’ll create an app for that.

    Cheers and thanks for allowing me to speak my mind.

  173. Sorry Adobe…

    No Flash on iPod/iPhone/iPad. Ever.

    Don’t need it. Don’t want it.


  174. It is to me, simply a toy for the is not going to replace any type of device out there nor will it create a new category in the gadget world.

  175. Fact is, no matter which way you look at it. For the average consumer.
    Apple is constricting user experience and will suffer. (Flash is just obvious to have, should be a no brainer)

    Google and adobe are trying to share user experience with customers.

    I will be buying my google phone and waiting for the google pad, if i don’t just get an acer instead,

    I won’t be fooled bullied into shiny new things that just don’t do what they should.

    Sorry mr. Jobs you are wrong.

  176. Flash is a resource hog. HOG! It bogs down a quad-core Mac tower for god’s sake. I can’t blame Apple for not wanting it draining the batteries of their portable devices. Adobe needs to own up to this one.

  177. There is a simple solution. Fix Flash. Currently when playing farmville my battery dies in minutes instead of hours because the fan is constantly running and FIrefox is using 100% of my CPU. I am glad it is not on my phone, nor will it be on my iPad until it is fixed. Fix the product and Apple will be forced to embrace it. Don’t whine about lack of support while your product sucks.

  178. I just uninstalled Flash from my Macbook Pro.
    Hopefully many others will follow and we’ll see rapid HTML5 adoption.

    Anyone willing to volunteer a “Death to Flash, Hello HTML5 campaign”? 🙂

  179. Adrian, there are many things Adobe has to be proud of, including the PDF format, etc. However, Flash does not belong on the web. It may be commonly used, but it is not a web standard.

    Like others on this board, I strongly advocate the use of HTML 5 based video and animations as an alternative to Flash. Flash is a resource hog and a source of instability. Worse, vendors like Apple, Mozilla, Google, etc. do not have the option to “fix” the product as they do not have access to the source code.

    Regarding the missing plugin on the iPad demo, you can be sure that Steve Jobs picked a few sites to demonstrate this intentionally. As it stands now, many people install things like “click to flash” plugins to avoid flash being displayed by default as is. There is a reason for that. As browsers embrace HTML 5, Flash will fade away into the sunset. It served its purpose at the time, but that time has passed.

  180. I could care less about the lack of Flash and am actually happier not to see the annoying ads.

  181. I have a better idea: Instead of worrying about the iPad, can you guys fix the plugin so it stops crashing my browser?


  182. flash doesn´t have any benefits whatsoever. this whole product is a pain in the a**. as a (web)designer, I´d say: getting rid of flash is a good thing. thumbs up for apple having the guts. to adobe: better think about your products instead of weeping.

  183. Macromedia bought FutureSplash what, 15 years ago? This technology has been around long enough and it’s a big enough cash cow that you could have it honed to a fine point. Instead, Macromedia and now Adobe have a huge steaming pile of quality that is foisted upon users.

    Flash is slow, buggy, and a security hole on the Mac. Adobe should be ashamed. I’ll say this- if Dr. Warnock was still in charge instead of a bunch of used car salesmen, Adobe software would actually still be awesome and Adobe customers would actually still be happy.

    Pull your heads out and realize that you are doing exactly what Real did- piss away a huge Net video market because you won’t produce a good product. If Flash was rewritten from the ground up for the Mac, I bet Apple would put it on the iPhone family of products.

  184. Flash is hogging up my MacbookPro using 4GB of RAM. With both Safari and Firefox the loading times on these are just not realistic for a web experience. Half the time I wait for the icon to stop spinning before the content is loaded is quite ridiculous.

    During my design work where I have Photoshop opened and Freehand, I also need to use a browser to do my research. At this stage, I use a plug in to switch off all Flash related content when I surf to be able to work properly, meaning no lags or getting impatient waiting for load blocks.

    I understood why the iPhone does not allow flash. It would certainly crash the system, and I was not surprised at all when it didn’t load during the iPad’s demonstration.

    This is more of Adobe problem. Apple would do anything to better improve usability, this has been always their prime concern. It is this goal that Apple has decided to cut flash out of the browser.

  185. Flash is hogging up my MacbookPro using 4GB of RAM. With both Safari and Firefox the loading times on these are just not realistic for a web experience. Half the time I wait for the icon to stop spinning before the content is loaded is quite ridiculous.

    During my design work where I have Photoshop opened and Freehand, I also need to use a browser to do my research. At this stage, I use a plug in to switch off all Flash related content when I surf to be able to work properly, meaning no lags or getting impatient waiting for load blocks.

    I understood why the iPhone does not allow flash. It would certainly crash the system, and I was not surprised at all when it didn’t load during the iPad’s demonstration.

    This is more of Adobe problem. Apple would do anything to better improve usability, this has been always their prime concern. It is this goal that Apple has decided to cut flash out of the browser.

  186. Man I have never seen a more obvious case of paid commentators on a blog. Flash is a standard and its ubiquity speaks to its usefulness. Apple is playing a game here to push its own player technology and consumers are the losers.

  187. Stop whining about Apple and fix your plugin. Flash on a Mac is an absolute abomination. IF you used a Mac you would know Flash is an absolute resource hog, slowing down the computer to a crawl and if you are on a laptop it just crushes the battery life. I am happy/ecstatic that Jobs and company does not include Flash. I even use the plugin Click To Flash on Safari and it has virtually stopped Safari from crashing and I never get the pinwheel from all of those flash banners sucking up my CPU.

    Again: FIx your plugin!!!!

  188. I would be lying to say I am happy when I see the ‘flash not played/supported’ symbol when it first happens but I would not be very sincere either if I said I am happy in general with “Flash”. It is probably true that near 75% of the market may use it however that is way down from what it was. I think this is largely due to a growing concern with the nearly automatic restrictions using “Flash” on portable devices mandates (power and resources). I use my portable device almost as much as my home based computer, this is only since the introduction of the iPhone. I think more and more Adobe must do something to stay competitive because you can ‘blame’ Apple to deflect attention but at the end of the day systems like Flash that greatly use more resources than would a more efficient system to accomplish much the same thing, and thereby are way more costly, are not long for the word en masse. Flash is a bit of a functioning relic in that sense. I understand the corporate thinking at Adobe, all too well, Flash is being used in approximately 75% of the market so why change anything …. and quite possibly that philosophy will continue at 65%, 45% etc. Unfortunately all too often, employees who ‘see the writing on the wall’ while they are employed by a company and DO something about it are called visionaries; like it is some kind of rare intrinsic ‘gift’ … seems more like common sense to me as is the expression “Common sense is not all that common”. PS. Only a few years ago a particular site I used stated something to the effect “Sorry if your using Mac our site will not work (I believe it was the video portion, Mac refuses to support us don’ complain to us complain to them.” In truth the site refused to invest in whatever it took to work on Mac and make it compliant … I happened to go by the site only a few months ago, they are making a big point of how iPhone friendly they are. Something changed and that was the desire for traffic being generated not only by Mac but by iPhone.

  189. Open Screen Project? What a load of crap. Release the software and it will run on the iPad, the iPhone and all sorts of devices.

    Eric S. Raymond told Sun in 1997: “You can have ubiquity or you can have control. Pick one.”

    This was about Java. Guess how that ended? It is thirteen years later now. Didn’t you guys learn anything?

  190. Wow, I have never seen a company blog so out of touch with reality, luckily the comments set the story straight.

  191. I just wanted to add on further point. I have great respect for all the people that work on this type of process like “Flash” — without a doubt they have done a big service for people like me who could never do what that have done (I mean on my own or even collectively with others, I just do not have the tallent for it) and by their effort made the world a bit closer in how we can get information and other points of interest. I see some of the criticism here directed at Adobe (poor big Adobe, etc etc) and I do not think it correct to personalize it like that. I hope that Adobe and its team(s) can find a way to stay profitable and provide a system that will be efficient on all systems and also run well on OS.

  192. In my humble opinion flash is one of the ugliest, insecure and most annoying things on the web since java applets. it is awfully resource intensive, stores tracking cookies without user consent, breaks browser navigation model, has unfixable security holes allowing cross-site data stealing, promotes oh-so-flashy inaccessible and unbookmarkable site design and so on. 2 real-world usages of it are 1) youtube and its kin (html5 video tag to the rescue) and 2) google street map (working on ipad somehow).
    I have flash blocked by default in all my browsers and rarely miss animated ads and with 100% cpu usage, and quite happy with it blocked by default in iphone and now in ipad browsers. Sorry, guys, you are developing and promoting web abomination. Probably Apple’s reasons to ditch flash are business related and such, but I could not agree more — to hell with it.

  193. I’ve used Flash in website development since before it was even called Flash, however I really think it is time for people to move on. Flash is an obsolete, proprietary technology that had got people by when browsers did not adhere to standards, javascript was flaky, and css support was in its infancy. I see no place for it in the future and certainly would never use it when creating new sites for clients nowdays. IMHO Adobe made a huge mistake purchasing Macromedia just to get their hands on the Flash platform.

  194. Hi,
    I really think that IF flash plugin were stable and not so hardware sucking as it is now on Mac OS X as it it now, Apple would be please to allow flash plugin not only on iPad but on iPhone as well, so I don’t think there’s any one else to blame other than Adobe for the shitty flash plugin on Mac plataform.

  195. Hopefully the rest of the industry will follow Apples lead here and abandon the abomination that is Flash for online media delivery. Close proprietary standards? No thanks.

  196. You know maybe if you dudes had made some effort with Flash on OSX this wouldn’t be an issue? There still isn’t a 64bit Flash binary for Safari and Flash on OSX still completely sucks up my CPU time for miniscule things.

    Cry me a fucking river that there isn’t any Flash on the iPhone/iPad with all the effort you’ve put into OSX.

  197. Well, Adobe should open the Flash source code before other technologies fully replaced it. Maybe the “community” will be able to make a less hungry player.

  198. You know what Adobe?

    As an experiment, I turned on a flash-blocker on Wednesday, just to see whether or not I could manage without Flash on the net. It’s now Friday and I’m doing just fine. Sure, here or there I might miss a feature, but my browser’s been *remarkably* stable.

    Hulu isn’t a concern for me as (like most of the rest of the world), I don’t live in the United States. Same goes for a lot of the other content you mention – it’s geo-locked to your country anyhow.

    Flash? A resounding meh.

  199. The problem isn’t the iPad not having Flash, Flash being FLASH is the problem!! As a long time web designer, graphic designer, publishing designer who understands the value and SEO benefits of hardcoding sites with proper CSS and HTML, and, that I am annoyed by nothing in the world more than whole sites built in Flash (literally drives me nuts, besides, entire sites in flash come across amatuerish and gimmicky), AND knowing the real details of WHY Apple didn’t take on the Flash component, I don’t mind the Flash not working on iPad/iPod/iPhone one bit.

    Actually, it’s a smart, logical decision at the moment. At least until Flash technology itself is revised in a more accomodating way.

    Don’t get me wrong, I like when flash is used wisely just for navigation, design a nice skin for video embedding, or for a nice intro or something …

    … HOWEVER, to me, from a web developing/design point of view, flash is in most cases, unnecessary bandwidth waste for unnecessary bells-n-whistles that many amatuer web “designers” totally misuse and abuse.

    It certainly doesn’t belong on a “phone” until its efficiency is as simple as an aniimated gif. 😉 lol

  200. You people saying HTML5 is the next savior are the ones out of toush. HTML5 is a pipe dream. They haven’t even agreed on the video codec that will be support because everyone wants their propriatery codec to become the standard.

    Dream on.

    What I’d like to see is Adobe pulling all of their software from OSX. Then you can have a crystal clean and useless experience on all of your Apple crap.

    HTML5 will never EVER give people the creativity, the RIA building capabilities without limitations as Flash will.

    The reason Flash runs like crap on OSX is not because Adobe, it’s because of the underlying problems in OSX and how it interprets the code so ask Apple why they are unable to release a patch that will make the player work ok. Flash player works just fine on Linux. Flash can never be fixed in OSX and it’s OS problem.

    There’s a reason why Google and other huge companies use Flash when they can’t do things in HTML/JS. It’s because there’s only one thing that allows you to create truly Rich Interactive Applications on the web without the constraints in creativity or compatibility. Good luck doing live video streams in HTML5.

    So suck it up.. Apple’s iPad is a failure, an unfinished device that is severely limited in so many ways. I’m sure a lot of you will buy it, like good little Apple pigeons you are, so maybe when they rip you for the money I can buy the version that will actually work for $400.

  201. suck it up adobe. all your whining isn’t going to give you any leverage.

    the fact is you’ve been outmaneuvered and the lack of quality in flash itself prevents you from being able to opening the door.

    You would be wise to forget trying to grow the company into a bigger player on the scene.

    Please just focus on the core creative apps that users actually respect you for. (well.. we use them at least).

  202. I don’t understand all these nonsense about Flash here. You hate Flash? Flash is evil? Fine! Just disable it. What is wrong with having a choice?

    Any one?

  203. Flash is horrible, number reason for crashes, all sorts of security holes, and is a resource hog.

    The sooner websites stop using it the better. Before there weren’t any real alternatives, now there is (thankfully in an open standard form).

    Flash’s time is over.

  204. 1) I love my IPOD but wish it supported Flash.

    2) How can Apple claim, “Best Browsing Experience” when they constrict user experience?

    3) Is this misleading?

    4) Just guessing but, how many of these scathing posters are employed or associated with Apple? (I’m not associated with Adobe in any way.)

  205. Flash. who needs it.

    I hate flash as many others have noted above. I’m forced to use a new support application from Oracle written in flash. What a pos.

    Flash and my fax machine belong in the same pile along with my palm organizer.

    Go away Flash. Just go away.

  206. I can honestly say I haven’t missed flash one bit in all the time I’ve owned an iPhone, and I even employ a plugin to block flash and rather get proper video if I decide to visit YouTube.

    If I wanted a hundred million screaming flash ads in my face and represented as a huge sum on my monthly phone bill, I’d get a phone with flash support. But I don’t.

  207. Problem here is Adobe…. consumes so many resources,
    In browser I have the plug in running over a 1gb of vm so I try and avoid flash at all costs.

    YouTube is already moving from Flash to HTML5. Soon the whole industry will abandon flash, unless it is re-architected.
    Will take some time, but flash as it is today will soon be gone from major content providers.

    Adobe, please lift the game and make a less resource intensive platform. It was a great platform 5 years ago!

  208. Are you serious?
    Adobe is complaining that your flash plugin is not on the iPad?!

    If you guys made a flash plugin for Mac OSX which doesn’t use 100% of my CPU we could talk about running it on mobile devices.

  209. I have a Windows XP, Windows 7, MacBook and iPhone.

    I have flash blockers installed on the three computers and have never once missed having Flash on my iPhone.

    I do not enjoy the hit that Flash has on my browsing experience, I find very little of the Flash content out there to be worth experiencing and see no need to have it on a mobile device.

  210. I agree with GKEENAN entirely. ENTIRELY. Fix your app!!! The only strong feeling I have about the lack of flash support on the iPad is one of relief – that I don’t have to go to the trouble of disabling flash myself.

  211. Adobe Flash is a complete piece of junk.

    When Adobe fixes all the security problems and bugs in Flash, maybe then it deserves more widespread adoption.

    I can’t wait until the day that Flash is gone.

  212. How about Adobe not try to be the next Microsoft and have monopoly control on the display of web content?

    You Adobe people are frelling hypocrites, open standards indeed… Your claims will hold water when you donate the Flash platform to the open source movement. Until then you’re just spewing hypocritical BS about open standards.

  213. Cripes, this sure brought out the anti-Flash partisans in full force.

    Flash, like any proprietary format on the web, isn’t mandatory but I don’t need Apple to make decisions for me about what content I can and can’t see.

    Now, I would imagine Apple would need a special arrangement with Adobe to get Flash on what is probably a somewhat unusual device in terms of the OS – moreso for GPU acceleration (something that owners of nVidia / ATi graphics cards enjoy), so I imagine Apple deserves a bit of space for having made the decision.

    But turning it into a talking point? Lame.

  214. Flash crashes almost daily on my Macs. It is a total performance hog. Since Flash is featured on almost NO smartphones this is NOT a Mac only issue. Soon enough, HTML 5 will render Flash as a forgotten technology unless Adobe can improve the way Flash performs. Maybe hire back some of the best Macromedia Software Engineers as it appears Adobe can either not fix this abortion or doesn’t want to!

    Stop complaining about Apple and FIX Flash!!!

  215. Scott F said: “Or just be patient. Youtube and Vimeo get it. Hulu et al will too, soon.”

    New York Times gets it too. Instead of focusing on the missing plugin on the Times website, people should focus on the fact that the Times iPad app has videos. The Times currently only has Flash videos on their site, but they are adding non-Flash videos because of the iPad. Who’s going to be next?

    I’m hoping the iPad will do for HTML5 H.264 video what the iMac did for USB. When the iMac first came out in 1998, serial and parallel ports dominated the market. USB had been had been out for a couple of years, but it was not widely used. Steve Jobs’s decision to forego the prevailing techonology, and go with the new technology helped spur the widespread use of USB.

  216. >Scott – I think you have misread the point about ePub. You can read/move any open ePub files on anything, but you can’t move iBooks (which use Fairplay DRM presumably) onto none Apple systems.

    I’m just not making the same assumptions you do. Will iBooks’ ePub files be transferable? If so, to what? iPhone? Mac OS? iPod? Probably. Kindle? Sony Reader? Android? Place your bets.

    Remember when Apple removed DRM from AAC files? They had to be dragged kicking and screaming into the 21st century by the far more open and progressive recording industry, right?

    >A bit like how iTunes movies are MPEG4 and H264 – nice open standards, also used by Flash – but wrapped in Fairplay DRM so you can’t play them elsewhere.

    That’s not Apple’s choice.

  217. flash sucks!

    Thank you apple for not putting flash on my Iphone.
    Thank you youtube for moving to HTML5.
    HTML5 rules.

  218. I develop with Flex and the experience with the player on OSX has been terrible compared to Windows. It’s been unacceptable to me that there hasn’t been improvements in the last few years and been looking at HTML5 and other alternatives for future deployments.

  219. Just curious here… is there some reason why Adobe can’t create a Flash-enabled Webkit browser and release it through the App Store?

  220. I’m beginning to find this whole “controversy” quite humorous as it continues to get blown out of proportion left and right. The lack of support for the Flash Platform on the iPad confirms everyone’s suspicions about the iPhone and iPod Touch that Apple was making up a bullshit line about why they were disallowing Flash. With the iPad they’ve made a very clear statement that supporting Flash just isn’t in their business model. Do they want complete control over the content their customers’ consume, when they consume it, and how much they pay? Absolutely. It’s part of the Apple brand. I have two MacBook Pro’s, two iPhone 3GS’ an iPod Nano, and I just bought my Dad an iMac and my sister a MacBook because I was sick of fixing their Windows-based computers every 6 months. I love Apple’s products. And at the same time, the message they are sending is very clear, and based on studies from research firms such as Forrester, Android is going to take over the number one spot in mobile by 2012, with Apple dropping to number 4. Ouch.

    I wrote up a blog post on the state of the web on Flash shortly after the iPad announcement, before all of the passionate controversy started, which some may find interesting:

  221. Sorry guys, I understand that you are pushing the Flash agenda but it is a drag, It is buyggy, slow and a pain on every platform. I can certainly be without Flash. Good riddence~!

  222. I’ve always worked on Macs. Exclusively, for over 20 years. But I’ll go where Adobe goes. If they pulled their software from Mac tomorrow, I’d switch to Windows, as much as I hate it. Most creative people would.

    All the followers who don’t understand the current status of HTML5 or what Flex actually provides… please shut up. In 3 years when HTML5 is kind of working on IE, it’s still not going to be capable of doing half the stuff Flash/Flex can do right now. I’ve built things in Flash from massive multiplayer games to massive-multi-processor A-Life experiments to business apps to corporate intranets to in-browser POS software that runs concurrently with zero downtime for years on end. If Flex/Flash wasn’t around I’d have to target separate platforms and mandate that franchisees own certain computers to run the software. HTML5 is nowhere near being up to these tasks.

    People need to separate “Flash sites with animation and stupid intros” from the real uses of AS3, namely, cross-browser app development. Streaming video? Let that go to HTML5. AS3’s future is fast 3d, client-side logic and rapid cross-platform app development.

    I’ve got business owners and franchisees screaming to run their apps on an iphone. Android’s already there (pretty much). Guess what: I’ve been telling all my clients for the last year to buy anything but an Apple product. This is Apple making a control play; myself and most developers are more interested in making great products than buying into the corporate line, and we’re certainly not going to turn our backs on a technology like AS3 when there is no legitimate alternative. So again, Adobe, if you want to bail on Apple, I’m ready to chuck my macbook.

  223. How about proper Linux support?
    And by proper i mean firstly a plugin that works without sucking up all the huice of a core 2 duo 2.0 GHz for a couple of lame ads and a 64 bit non-beta plugin that actually works.

  224. I have to say that I dont think Flash will ever make it onto an Apple portable device. It just wont work performance wise or serve any purpose in the future.

    HTML 5 is just starting to grow up now and is being tested by YouTube and other video services. Relying on a browser based player and not a third party for video is the future.

    Apple knows this and thats why Flash is not on their devices.

    Ive made a post, actually a couple now, about this issue. Just click my name on this comment.

  225. I see your point, but the problem is that Flash is the number one source of crashes on my computer. I can’t stand it. The iPhone has pushed developers away from Flash and the iPad will cement that move.

  226. This isn’t about a monopoly. Flash has been a standard for years, just like the PDF has been. Flash is viewable everywhere, for free, on most platforms. Just like everything else, embedding of technology usually costs companies money for development – so if this is costing Apple $ for licencing per product sold, they need to suck it up. Why? Because Apple charges everybody else for implementing FireWire on their devices – so much $ per port.

    It’s simple – Apple & Adobe need to stop being babies and start sharing their toys. The world isn’t going to put their webpage viewing because they can’t get along. I’m not spending $ on a tablet that can’t view 70%+ of the world’s web content with. Apple’s claim that it’s the best device for surfing the web is misleading.

    Come on, Apple & Adobe – quit screwing us around. Create a viable flash plugin together so we can get on with this.

  227. Thanks Apple for blocking of Flash on iPhone and iPad.

    I would like to see that more major players in the industry would following Apple’s example, especially on mobile devices there is no need anymore for Flash.

  228. I have to admit, I’m overwhelmed with the intense hatred of flash technology displayed here. While its true, a lot of flash apps are poorly written and cause various issues on different platforms, the same could be said of javascripts, CSS, HTML, HTML5 and any other programming language for that matter. Some poorly written PHP scripts recently allowed my entire server to be compromised and hacked for example.

    That said, there isn’t an open standard complete with an established developer base that has an integrated suite of developer tools that comes close to flash, flex, and companion software like Swift3d etc. I cant even imagine building a game as complex as farmtown or club penguin in HTML5/javascript. That is a nightmare scenario as the technology stands now. On top of that, getting volunteers to provide free labor to produce any technology is harder than herding cats, largely because the expectations are huge, and unless you have 100’s of people willing to forgo paying the rent and starve while they meet consumer expectations and sense of entitlement, you are stuck with non open source stuff. This is why MSSequel is more prominent than mySQL on big sites – its just too expensive to be dependent purely on open source.

    I feel the hatred here is misdirected at Adobe and the Flash technology, and really should be focussed on cheesy advertisements, poorly built or grossly underfunded online games and other crap that is out there – irrespective of technology used to build it.

    Adobe should make the flash player work better on the Mac OS, no question, and I am sure they are doing that with the resources that make sense given the market.

    At any rate, using or not using flash should be a consumer’s individual choice based on the context (how badly they want to see the content) and not dictated by the platform or hardware. and by fencing off flash, Apple has removed choice. That lack of consumer choice is bad, not the flash platform.

    There are many things flash is really good for, and lots of things flash is inappropriate for. Consumers should be able to make that call, and this iPad is just another example of a huge corporation deciding what is “best for you”, which makes Apple “evil” IMO.

  229. Actually, I’d rather see (at least for websites) Flash fade away. It is a memory hog compared to other ways for displaying information on the web, IMHO. It’s also had its problems with security issues in browsers, and that’s one thing I do NOT want to see having the capability of returning.

    HTML5 seems more the way to go for web content, than Flash. I’d rather see open-sourced standards than locked-in, proprietary formats (and it appears there are quite a lot of folks thinking that way, as well).

    Apple’s non-support for Flash doesn’t bother me a bit, on any of their products…

  230. Adobe, the writing is on the wall. As a web designer and user of all of your products – including Flash – it’s time to develop new tools that get around the hurdles of plug-in based technologies.

    There’s a huge opportunity for Adobe to develop tools that will allow graphic designers like myself to develop Flash-like content that uses HTML5, CSS, Ajax, etc. It’s time to get over being left out and get started on leading the way.

  231. @Josh Strikes

    > In 3 years when HTML5 is kind of working on IE, it’s still not going to be capable of doing half the stuff Flash/Flex can do right now.

    Most of the commenters couldn’t care less about IE support for HTML 5. I’m happy with my motorcycle’s and see no need for a horse that runs on gasoline.

    >People need to separate “Flash sites with animation and stupid intros” from the real uses of AS3, namely, cross-browser app development. Streaming video? Let that go to HTML5. AS3’s future is fast 3d, client-side logic and rapid cross-platform app development.

    True or not (your expertise clearly trumps mine here), lack of some of these things on a phone or portable tablet is not likely to significantly hurt sales. As for your top three uses for AS3, none of these are platform independent.

  232. Maybe because I can run my Mac weeks with pscs4, listen to music, play games and browse nearly 100 tabs in firefox. But strange happens if I open one flash application.

    So please pick up your broom and clean up this messed up application.

  233. Hopefully this marks the beginning of the end of flash!
    Video can be done in HTML 5 and excessively animated websites are annoying anyways… (not to speak of resource consumption)

  234. We want flash on all platforms and all browsers – then we can crash equally fast on all these platforms!

    Stop crashing my browser, flash.

  235. Nice case of the pot calling the kettle black.

    Apple’s ePub files cannot be used by software from other companies? You may have a point and they should use a standard open to all (though I’d like to see some sources for the claim that they’re not), even though (or because) the files are only intended to be read on Apple’s hardware.

    Flash doesn’t play on iPhones, iPod Touch and iPad? Why is it that Flash can only be used with Adobe’s proprietary software? Do you think the situation would be different if the Flash format was open?

    PDF became successful because it was open from the start, after the whole industry got sick from being milked by Adobe for all that PostScript was worth (and that was a lot), and started looking for alternatives.

    Sad that, according to you, 70% of games and 75% of video on the web depend on a closed, proprietary format, namely Flash. Time to change that – I’m using NoScript and FlashBlock anyway and look forward to Flash either becoming open or disappearing.

  236. Notice how the only people complaining about Flash making their computers crash are Mac users?

    Maybe if you got a better computer…….

  237. Man, macfags are so mad. Nobody with any sort of tech knowledge uses an Apple product. Deal with it, nerds.

  238. Please stop whining. First try to make something usable at all, then start complaining. Flash is a performance-hog in any browser or operating system, it’s insecure by design and it’s the disease of the WWW.

    >It looks like Apple is continuing to impose restrictions on their devices that limit both content publishers and consumers.

    YOU are limiting the users experience. YOU are slowing down the advancement of the WWW. Let’s forget Flash and hurray for HTML5.

  239. A company (that, might I add, just shreds Photoshop Elements for the not-so-rich to pieces, thanks) openly whines that another company does not exclusively promote its buggy, resource-eating self-proclaimed “standards” when there are excellent alternatives at hand?

    Well, folks, this is Web 2.0. I think your marketing department needs an update. Soon.

  240. Using Linux, flash consumes as much resources as with mac os x.

    So you can’t get performance on an closed source system, and you can’t get performance on an open source system, you only get performance on Windows, and you wonder why people more and more hate flash and skip it?

    It also seems the flash player has an memory leak when playing videos on linux.

  241. In no way this is Apples fault. On the contrary its their strength.

    I have developed for Flash a long time and I hate Flash down to the bones. Not just the simplest Animations uses 100% Ressources of a dualcore 2.4GHz processor. Its also a pain in the ….. to develop.

    As long as Adobe does not get the bought crap from macromedia running smooth on the Mac, Apple is moving the only good direction they could do for their platform. Eliminate a Security and Usability Risk by not using it, can only be the best of all decisions.

    Well HTML5 is dawning, so the Aera of Flash is either dying or Adobe turns on good development.

    Either would be nice.

  242. Flash shall become extinct because it’s proprietary technology.
    Flash shall become extinct because its implementation is a CPU hog.
    Flash shall become extinct because it’s a PITA on linux.
    Flash shall become extinct because it’s a PITA on bsd.
    Flash shall become extinct because it’s a PITA on linux 64bit.
    Flash shall become extinct because it’s a PITA on bsd 64bit.
    Flash shall become extinct because it’s a PITA on my Nokia E series mobile.
    Flash shall become extinct because it’s accessible to unable moron developers who put it to inappropriate uses.
    Flash shall become extinct because it’s a PITA to read 20 pages’ source code a day to circumvent the flash “Enter site” button which does not display.
    Flash shall become extinct because my privacy is constantly being stepped on through its own cookie implementation, circumventing the browser’s.

    Flash shall become extinct because it simply is the web’s SUV, and it’s time is over.

    Now, where is the blog where I can drop my rant against PDF..!

  243. As anytime, the only way out is Open Source! Then Flash would be much more popular.
    Let’s hope that Gnash or HTML5 will replace this proprietary software …

  244. It’s quite funny that Adobe wastes time to review other companies products, while the own reader is the most exploitable software of the last year.

    maybe you guys should reschedule your priority’s a little bit and focus on the important things. Like 2 years old Bugs, that desperately needs to be fixed ….

    Some of them are hundreds of days old.

  245. Not supporting Flash is the right choice, it sucks and has to die! You didn’t deserve any better, Adobe! For years you have not been able to fix the performance issues on Mac OS X, not to mention the 100 other reasons Flash sucks. Flash is the most annoying thing in the web I hope web designers will finally realize that HTML5/JavaScript/CSS3 is better for everyone.

  246. You need to open source the flash player. Having Apple working against flash is one thing, but now Google is doing it as well with the HTML 5 version of YouTube.

    But I’m guessing you already know you need to do it. I know upper management can be a bit short sighted in their decisions, to say the least.

  247. Flash deserves to die.
    Poorly implemented, slow and buggy (Particularly on OS X).
    I have waited for years for it to just disappear.
    Won’t regret you, adobe.

  248. Thanks Apple for blocking of Flash on iPhone and iPad.

    I would like to see that more major players in the industry would following Apple’s example, especially on mobile devices there is no need for Flash anymore.

  249. Flash is dead. It’s a CPU-hogging behemoth that was there, when OS-independent videostreaming just wasn’t possible. That has changed and Flash has been reduced to either a bad alternative to php/html/css (hollywood movie-sites, caugh) or a fallback-option for antic browsers.

    For a short time we’ll be plagued by a licensing problem (h264) which shows how proprietary software and software-patents can harm web standards, but that’s about it. All we need now is OGG Theora and H264 to coexist and support for all browsers that matter (all except IE, that is) – then we’ll bring Flash to its knees.

    Adobe, your days are over. You failed in optimizing your code to actually be usable on trendy stuff like netbooks and 64bit-platforms. Now, please stop whining about it. You had years to build a great product and utterly failed.

  250. I am reporting as a Linux user. When a browser crashes than it is 99 times out of 100 caused by your Flash Plugin. Whenever one has many websites open which are displaying ads via Flash than your computer gets seriously overloaded.
    Using features like fullscreen is a pain to watch with all the juddering arount.
    I don’t know about other platforms, but monster-fail is what would be a perfect description for flash on linux for the past years and most likely for the years to come.

  251. Wow, people owning Apple devices complaining about propiertary software? Thats really inconsequent.

    Do we really need the stuff that is Flash capable to do better than html5? No.

  252. “70% of games and 75% of video on the web” ?

    I do wonder where those numbers came from.
    And I strongly suggest considering whether pulling numbers out of one’s arse is really a good idea.

    That so called “web” you’re talking about, I wonder what it might be. I don’t see much flash left in the web I know.

  253. Jobs’ statements against Adobe Flash have Zero credibility. He acts like the iPhone/iPad/Safari NEVER CRASH or the Apps in the App Store NEVER CRASH! What a load of BS!!!! No Flash = No Fun ! Plus no multitasking?? These are BASIC features in todays computing!

  254. Having no flash on the iPad is the best buy argument. WebKit with HTML allows everything *useful* flash does. However, it lacks all the crappy annoying shit that costs battery life and my nerves.

  255. The Flash plugin has to be the worst piece of software ever written. If I ever get to see a job application from one of the Flash developers, I’ll sure as hell drop it in the next toilet.

    Pathetic indeed.

    Addendum: this website seems just as pathetic, posting a comment doesn’t work without JS.


    “About Adobe: They are lazy, Jobs says. They have all this potential to do interesting things but they just refuse to do it. They don’t do anything with the approaches that Apple is taking, like Carbon. Apple does not support Flash because it is so buggy, he says. Whenever a Mac crashes more often than not it’s because of Flash. No one will be using Flash, he says. The world is moving to HTML5.”


  257. Flash is slow and crappy on my iMac with 4GB of ram. Flash was slow and crappy on my old PowerMac G5. Flash has always been slow and crappy on Mac’s and that “is” the issue.

    Fix flash to work smoothly on my Mac and then get it working smoothly on my apple mobile device. Don’t blame Apple for your shortcomings. This stems back to the Macromedia days and because you (Adobe) chose not to correct their mistakes, well then that is all on you.

  258. As there is no Flash support for the *BSDs other than swfdec and gnash, which have great problems running current swf-files, I can just say: I don’t miss Flash.

    Flash is a resource hog and eats away the CPU cycles and the memory of my machine as well as my time and my nerves. So, if the iPad is another nail in Flashs coffin, I hope it sells well.

  259. Flash sucks. The only reason why i ever would use a flash player are the creations of Bruno Bozetto. It will take another while they are on Youtube in appropriate quality.

  260. well,

    i think if flash would work properly i would use it, but in fact it doesn’t.

    i blocked flash in my browser and everywhere is see it. not because i don’t like adobe but flash slows down the whole www.

    if flash would be more safe and resource conserving i would love to use it but @ the moment its a no go.

    i don’t like apple because of the price and the design, but the decision of apple is absolutely comprehensible.

    @ the moment flash stands mostly for slow down, unsafe and unstable.

  261. There is nothing “cross platform” about Flash. It’s a freaking plugin. It doesn’t follow any standards, its propietary, slow bullshit.

    Why were there ever browser plugins to begin wih.

  262. I would love too see Flash being replaced by HTML5.
    Too bad Apple killed free video on the web, by refusing to implement a free video codec.
    They are no better than Adobe.

  263. @Scott

    You’re missing the fundamental point. Flash is going nowhere, because HTML5 + javascript will never be remotely as powerful, or as flexible as Flash is.

    So all these people sounding the death-nell of Flash, need to come back down to earth. It’s going nowhere.

    HTML5 right now is a buzzword, and alot of people throw it around without much knowledge of what it is. The reality is, it’s mainly a bunch of hype. It may change the face of video delivery, and offers a few more features, but it is nothing revolutionary, and certainly not something that companies are going to be using to replace 80% of the use cases for Flash.

    As banner ad’s? They ad companies will simply replace Flash ad’s with HTML5 ad’s, which you can no longer block. It’s not like they will somehow go away if flash becomes less popular… I guess the one upside is for the 5% of OSX users out there who have problems with CPU resources and flash banners.

    Personally, on my windows machine, my CPU is maybe 2% on a site featuring many banner ad’s, so the issue is literally meaningless to me and the vast majority of web users.

  264. @M. NAUGHT – Apple will not partner with Adobe to improve the flash plugin, that’s the honest truth.

    Look at Adobe’s partner list for the opensource project:

    Who’s not on that list?

    The entire goal of the OSP is to improve performance on all devices, and to work directly with manufacturers to improve performance. This is exactly what hundreds of OSX users are asking for in this thread…well it’s your company that is blocking that effort! Not Adobe.

    All this blame on the Flash team for the state of their plugin is unwarranted. They surely share alot of blame, for not dedicating enough resources presumably, but at the same time, they can only do so much if they aren’t getting any co-operation…

    I guess it’s easier to just blame Adobe, removes the need for people to actually use their brains, employ critical thinking and and look at an issue from multiple viewpoints.

  265. Well .. i would say it would be a start if you could produce a non-crashing version of your 64bit Flash-plugin.
    (non-crashing as in: does allow me to play youtube and vimeo videos _at all_)

    If you managed this there actually could be a slight chance
    that you manage to port Flash to a completely different architecture.

    .. i use google chrome nowadays if i want
    to watch videos on youtube.
    (google chrome has a very good javascript debugger btw.)

    So you could just be too late ..

    Christian Bahls

  266. I violently agree to most commenters here. Flash is simply a pain in the ass that should have never been invented. It is loud, gross, attention-demanding, and on top of all that, it’s just a piece of shit in terms of implementation.

    I seriously hope it will finally die now. Nobody needs you, really. Nobody.

  267. Why all the Flash Plug-in hate?!

    If it wasn’t for Flash player, the last 10 years of the web would have been a very dull place.

    HTML 5 may be a new technology that will replace the VIDEO side of what Flash was once great at, however it cannot replace the GAMES and other services that rely on Flash elements to make their website look good. (e.g. automatic fonts creation).

    Don’t give up on flash just yet, because that box in the OP photo is holding the iPhone back from being the best smartphone out there.

  268. As a user of both PC’s and Apple computers, I am acutely aware that Adobe has recently done huge damage to its credibility with Apple users through its failure to provide adequate checking and support for the use of Adobe software on Apple’s latest operating system (Snow Leopard). I have already resisted upgrading Adobe Dreamweaver and the purchase of other expensive Adobe Creative Suite software including because I now know that I cannot rely on Adobe support in the future. I am still angry at Adobe’s bad attitude to Apple users and will continue to be wary of touching any Adobe products, not with my hard-earned money, anyway, and not with any of my company’s money if I have any say in it. Good riddance to Flash, and if Adobe doesn’t wake up and lift its game it will be goodbye to Adobe.

  269. As a user of both PC’s and Apple computers, I am acutely aware that Adobe has recently done huge damage to its credibility with Apple users through its failure to provide adequate checking and support for the use of Adobe software on Apple’s latest operating system (Snow Leopard). I have already resisted upgrading Adobe Dreamweaver and the purchase of other expensive Adobe Creative Suite software including because I now know that I cannot rely on Adobe support in the future. I am still angry at Adobe’s bad attitude to Apple users and will continue to be wary of touching any Adobe products, not with my hard-earned money, anyway, and not with any of my company’s money if I have any say in it. Good riddance to Flash, and if Adobe doesn’t wake up and lift its game it will be goodbye to Adobe.

  270. I’m a home user and I have visited the html5 video link at the beginning of the comments (Jilion) and I must admit, it’s better than flashvideo. It starts immediately, smooth fullscreen transition, scrubbing works and my Macbbok doesn’t need to give 110% processor power (6% CPU was needed).

    But the best thing is that this site also worked on my iPhone!

    I will go for html5, because flash was sometimes such a bad experience because it stuck to often and my Macbook was overheating when watching longer Youtube videos. If flash on my Mac would have been a better experience, I wouldn’t care about alternatives at all.

    So it’s your fault Adobe, sorry.

  271. As a user of both PC’s and Apple computers, I am acutely aware that Adobe has recently done huge damage to its credibility with Apple users through its failure to provide adequate checking and support for the use of Adobe software on Apple’s latest operating system (Snow Leopard). I have already resisted upgrading Adobe Dreamweaver and the purchase of other expensive Adobe Creative Suite software including because I now know that I cannot rely on Adobe support in the future. I am still angry at Adobe’s bad attitude to Apple users and will continue to be wary of touching any Adobe products, not with my hard-earned money, anyway, and not with any of my company’s money if I have any say in it. Good riddance to Flash, and if Adobe doesn’t wake up and lift its game it will be goodbye to Adobe.

  272. I still see some room for flash, in web games and web applications (and annoying banner ads). But as a video delivery device, it’s had it’s day.

    Which is a shame really, as long time user and developer in flash. Why Adobe couldn’t be bothered with all the life lines Apple have thrown them in past, is anyones guess.


  273. @Ryan Camero: What part of “free and open standards” don’t you understand? I’d rather have less games written in open standards than loads of crappy performing ones in a closed standard. It’s about freedom, dependency (and battery life *g*).

    PS: H264 is patented, use ogg if you wanna be free.

  274. With all love to HTML5 and new technology…
    There is a massive growing billion$ market of browsergames and most of the games are just using flash or will be using flash in near future. Zynga, Playfish, EA, Bigpint, etc… all these companies will reinvent the casual gaming market in the next few years and flash is the only entry to gain this result, because everyone has a browser with flash. E.g. sisters, moms, kids are all playing flash browsergames without knowing what flash is. until the got a new html5- or Java-engined browser it can last years.

    Just think of the massive moneyworth casual-users, which are targeted with iPad. Donesn’t make sense to cut them off in my opinion.

  275. This is scary; I had no idea flash could generate so much resentments (at least within the mac community).
    After all, maybe adobe should consider improving their mac run-times.
    As a flash developer I’m not willing to return into the awful burden of coding around the numerous browser implementation of so called HTML/CSS standard. I see no reason why html5 would make this any different.

  276. Wtf?

    Why does i always read “Flash is out – HTML5 the future”?

    Wtf again? Because HTML5 has a video and a audio Tag?

    Flash is more. Much more.

  277. Once Adobe admits that Flash is an outdated and extremly buggy piece of technology it will be too late because the net-world already uses a different one.
    You should blame yourself, not Apple, for not implementing it in the most successful products they create.

  278. Look… Flash is a cow that is still using code from the mid-1990’s. It’s bloated and difficult to program for and I don’t need it running on my phone draining the battery with its inefficiency.

    Want to see for yourself? Right-click on an embedded Flash image and choose Settings. Isn’t that a lovely little Mac OS 8 dialog box?

    It should have been rewritten from the ground up when OS X debuted 10 years ago, but instead they just kept putting patches over what’s already there. Since they haven’t had any competition Adobe has just been dragging it along. My company doesn’t use Flash anymore for the web site.

    This is the same for Photoshop and Illustrator, which are about to collapse in on themselves with all of their fatness.

    Remember how Microsoft got caught with their pants down in 2003 with the successor to Windows XP? I suggest Adobe study that before they wind up having to put their developers out of work.

  279. @Shawn

    > You’re missing the fundamental point. Flash is going nowhere, because HTML5 + javascript will never be remotely as powerful, or as flexible as Flash is.

    I think you’re missing the fundamental point. Flash is going nowhere.

  280. Why Flash will Not be replaced with this crap.
    The fallowing are all Flash …
    2. Augmented Reality 3D
    5.Disney Toontown , FarmVille, Big Fish Games, Nickelodeon
    6. Adobe AIR apps Like TweetDeck
    7. WiiFlash that lets you make Wii games in Flash
    8. Flash CS5 will be able to export Iphone apps… that’s right as of CS5 flash will be able to make iPhone apps… It’s already used to make Mac apps.
    and on and on… Can HTML5 do all that ? NO

    Cartoons that were made in Flash
    Nickelodeon, Cartoon Network, Disney and more…
    1.Adult Swim

  281. I am a mere consumer, and not a developer, programmer or any such like, so not sure if my opinion will count much. I can understand Apple’s reservations about Flash if, as reported, it is cumbersome and unreliable on the Mac OS. However, as an avid iPod Touch user I am too often frustrated when I try to view a website and see that annoying icon signalling that the Flash content won’t work and I’ll have to boot up the desktop or notebook, or wait to get home to view.

    I think both sides need to get it together. Adobe clearly needs to improve the software if they want Apple to drop the restriction, and Apple needs to consider its end users more.

  282. Complaints about Flash performance are valid. From a developer’s point of view though, Flash is wonderful. There is nothing better.

    The programming and drawing model is powerful and elegant, ActionScript 3 with its optional types, classes, and packaging allows for proper “programming in the large”. I cringe at doing large or even non-trivial projects in JavaScript.

    The development and debugging effort if you use Flash is orders of magnitude better that traditional HTML development. I cringe at the thought of going back to tag soup/CSS hell, and a typeless language.

    Valid criticisms of Flash should be acted on. There is no reason performance on the Mac cannot be as good as Windows. But I don’t see Flash disappearing any time soon as long as the development story is better.

  283. I don’t think claiming Flash player ‘incredibly buggy’ is backed with any evidence. It surely has bugs, just like any other computer solutions: but it’s definitely not ‘incredibly buggy’. I suspect that the bugs you see are more likely due to the mistakes of flash developers rather than the flash platform itself. And I’m sure you’d agree with me that you could see that kind of errors happening in other areas of web developments as well. From my understanding, flash is currently the most stable web plug-in available. And it does offer a lot of flexibility to create some interesting stuff (admittedly, such freedom can be abused sometimes). You can see that it has matured a lot over the years – and many wrote about some of the features Flash has acquired.

    Personally, I think if someone doesn’t like flash as a development platform, he could develop with other alternative technologies. If he could achieve the same or better performance and outcome with less effort, say using JavaScript, then it makes a lot of sense not to use flash as a plug-in. I’m sure many have seen experiments done with HTML5/JS/Canvas which look quite impressive. But to be honest, for some of them, the exact same thing can be done in flash with better visual quality, performance, maintainability and architecture. They are admirable only because they are done using technologies which we didn’t think they are possible to produce using JS. So claiming Flash as inferior is not a really strong argument. It just shows that there might a lack of understanding about Flash. I think the critical point is more about choice. In some areas, Flash is surely a bad choice to use. But when things involved a lot more interactivity and sensory stimulus, I think Flash is the more appropriate platform to use.

  284. Adobe needs to stand up, this is economic war.


    1. No CS5 for the Mac platform until full Flash support restored. Win (Linux) only.

    Yes, this will hit Adobe’s bottom line hard, but how many shinny $2,500+ boxes will Apple sell without CS5 support. This is a drastic step, but if Apple sells millions of ipads without Flash support, Flash is done and Adobe will follow.

    2. Announce full Linux support and an Adobe design hardware solution. A design only box which comes with preinstalled Adobe products, full network support and a sweet design with a Linux optimized Bridge interface.

    Step-up now or sell soon.

  285. Flash is not irreplaceable,there is open HTLM 5, CSS3, JavaScript, jquery, libraries, frameworks, X3D, all W3C standards and SEO friendly, without bloating that CPU or draining the last bits of your battery.

    Let’s face it people complain about the iPhone battery and I complain about the 17″ macBook Pro battery lasting me less than an hour, but yes I have to admit that only happens when I have flash and air applications up and running.

    Let’s open our ears to what customers want, they don’t care if its Flash or HTML 5 or what have you, as long as they can use it, and enjoy the CPU and battery performance of their new pricy device.

    It might sound restrictive by Steve Jobs, but it is as restrictive as a web designer telling you that they will no longer support IE 6 in their web design implementation for your brand new web site. Let’s look a step further he has valid reasons in addition to pushing he is also pushing technology further.

    …by the way have you noticed that the majority of comments are in not in favour of adobe flash anymore? just a hint here… 😉

  286. Apple should support Flash, period. You can do way cooler things in Flash than you ever will be able to with HTML 5 or Jquery or Quicktime…There isn’t another tool or medium that allows you to do what you want or can imagine for delivery on the web like Flash does, that’s all there is to it. I can tell you this, the IPad will not kill Flash, neither will the IPhone, because there will always be an audience, and a desire to really push the edge on interactive experiences. I think it’s narrow minded and incredibly selfish that Apple doesn’t support Flash. The first thing I did when I got my IPhone was go to check out some Flash sites…nope, nothing there. What could be cooler than and IPad or and IPhone that also runs cool Flash sites? Not much. Also, Adobe should make Flash open source and do what they can to make it a web standard. Why should everyone change how they do things just to please Apple?

  287. The real big issue Apple has always had with flash on the iPhone and now the iPad, is not performance, but that it — like other interpreters allows developers and users to circumvent the app store model.

    Someone create an app that simply allows a container for HTML5 content “packages”, and gives a method for distributing them outside of the app store. It will not be approved due to “security concerns”.

    In the mean time, until apple either allows flash or the rest of the internet caves and switches platforms for Apple, and until the iPad gets multitasking without hacks, it is really just a giant iPod that has a nice screen.

    I’ll have another look at the device in a few years time, but i suspect by then google will be well on the path (perhaps with adobe and others) to producing a device that solves some of the iPad’s shortcomings.

  288. Alot of people here have no idea of the options flash give you. Stop thinking about the Flash timeline IDE, or flash ads or crappy intros.

    Flash is backed by the wonderful actionscript 3 language, – which is a modern, really powerful and versatile programming language – it can stream video, audio, webcam, microphone, it has advanced networking components, touch and gesture support, deep-linking and behaves consistently across browsers…

    On top of that you have the librairies : Flex, physics engines, 3d engines, particle engines, motion detection, enhanced reality, external device support (wii, xbox controller) and the ability to use existing c++ code.

    I use Flash for websites, games, expositions and visualizations for dubstep artists and DJs.

    Flash is great…

  289. I think about to buy one ipad for me and one for my parents until i found out it do not support flash. in nearly EVERY contemporary page is something with flash… animations, videos, sound,… whatever and its VERY frustrating to have a blanc screen or a uncomplete site. so a web tool that do not support the web customers makes no sense. so i will wait until this is fixed and then i will think again about it or buy a next generation touch-pad of an other company. i be sure similar products with flash support will be out by more custumer orientated companies. watch out!!!

  290. I really don’t get the whole “html5 is the way forward so lets drop flash” approach. If another technology comes along and replaces flash then great, I don’t really care as long as there’s a way for me to get content out there that can be seen by the maximum amount of people. At the moment however a lot of my content requires flash, so why not give the end user the choice of whether or not to enable it on their device?

    I’d much rather use more battery and be able the to view the web properly than save some battery and use apple’s censored version.

  291. On one hand:

    No Flash means no annoying advertisements blinking all over your screen..

    On the other hand:

    An iPad + Flex based web forms would be an awesome platform for e.g. conducting mobile surveys on the street.

    Code once, run anywhere! 🙂

  292. Simple, Apple’s greed will not allow Flash. Imagine, no need to download games form the App Store, how rude of us.

  293. Why does Jobs make choices for us? I want buggy flash on my iphone, I want steve to move his ass and implement it… or I move onto android, and screw him altogether, so unfortunate though I had to agree on a cutthroat terms with mobile phone operator to have my 3gs…

    It’s annoying to see so many people bashing flash, without even using it. Animators use it to create great cartoons, I use to program, there are millions of developers – flash isn’t just annoying ads, this is such a limited view of the world!

    I’m sorry to see so many brainless comments restating Jobs letter and being just aggressive.

    Oh, btw, if flash is allowed on iphone / ipad app store will disappear, isn’t Steve protecting his business model? It had to be the tittle of his letter, “business move to protect my interests, backed up with bag of lies”. Unfortunately thousands of mac fan boys come here bashing flash thinking, oh, his holiness is right, he is always… what a pitiful crowd you are!

  294. >The only reason I will not buy an ipad is because of the lack of >flash. Please adobe work with google on a ipad killer.

    What about the HP slate or the WeTab which can run natively AIR and Flash

  295. It’s really scarry to see how mac-fans are behaving more and more like fanatic religious.
    If someone doesn’t believe in your god, he should be killed, right?

    I think the main issue here is not weither flash is good or not, or who likes or dislikes it.
    Yes, HTML5 is better and is the future.
    But how in hell does that justify “banning” flash from the ipad?

    I’m not asking Apple to endorse and recommend flash.
    I’m just asking them to give me the freedom to choose.
    Not even, I’m just asking them to deliver on their promise of “giving the best browsing experience”, by letting me *also* browse the thousand of legacy websites that still use flash.

    I would even accept a popup on flash websites that would say “this website uses old technology and will drain your ipad battery and likely crashes”, if that makes them feel better.

    But please don’t pretend that your device can deliver a “best browsing experience” when you restrict it to only new and modern websites.
    Flash is not only about video and games. My bank website uses it, my library uses it. Yes, they’re old and outdated. And no, I doubt they’ll update their website to use HTML5 anytime soon.

    Why should we, the customers, pay for this petty war between Steve Jobs and Flash?

  296. What about iTunes? That’s annoying to have to upload everything through that beast to get it on to an Apple device (iphone/ipod/ipad). Is that not controlling or what? Not to mention that iTunes is a resource hog and causes all kinds of computer issues for me. Plus, what about the content you upload into that beast, where does it go and who gets acess to it that you don’t know about. Is Apple keeping everyting everyone uploads?

  297. This is a great website, there is alot of controversy going on here right now. I hope the problem gets solved because I really like to use adobe and flash.
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  298. “Apple is continuing to impose restrictions on their devices that limit both content publishers and consumers…” it’s money that motivates these type of decisions…not what consumers want.
    Josie Medical Information

  299. This is huge for Flash player. I am so stoked there is an iPhone option with the new Flash it’s abosolutely amazing. Keep up the good work Adobe. Keep it up. m2ts converter

  300. I wanted to thank you for this great read!! I definitely enjoying every little bit of it I have you bookmarked to check out new stuff you post Keep it up. m2ts converter

  301. It’s an interesting approach. I commonly see unexceptional views on the subject but yours it’s written in a pretty unusual fashion. Surely, I will revisit your website for additional info.

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  302. There is HTML and there is Flash. Two DOMINANT web platforms. Flash is IMPLEMENTED as a plugin, but it’s a whole platform. It could just as easily be a Flash browser with an HTML plugin. HTML has (various browser-implemented graphics renderers) DOM+CSS+JavaScript. Flash has (consistent, single-corporation-implemented) graphics render, display hierarchy with FLA and MXML content formats + ActionScript 3 (type safe and beats the ass of JavaScript performance-wise) + PixelBlender (Pixel Shaders), native 3D and an awesomely documented straightforward class framework. Flash isn’t going anyway. Apples going to hurt hard for this, cause there’s NO WAY IN HELL I’m touching one of their devices as long as they don’t support Flash.. the OTHER, BETTER web platform for RIAs. People bitch about performance, but IF YOU TRIED THE SAME S&^% IN JavaScript… your computer would come to a crawling halt even worse than with flash. JavaScript doesn’t tend to crash, cause it sucks and no one builds anything cool in it, because the performance sucks and the language sucks. HTML is not “the new standard”, it’s AN IDEA and WISHFUL THINKING right now. HTML5 is a f^%&^ pipe dream. Please wake up.

  303. Apple often leads the pack in denying certain technologies that the company feels are on the outs. For example, Macs were the first computers to stop offering the option of a floppy drive. Jobs believed that the floppy disk was on its way out in the late 90s/early 2000s, and it turned out that he was correct.

    I am not a Mac user; I own a PC. And I think Flash sucks. It’s slow and clunky. Lately, it’s updated versions have been crashing like crazy. And, there are no viable alternative options out there these days. Monopoly, anyone?

  304. Apple’s hunger for introducing more products that are going to wow the audience and make their jaws drop and of course,pour out money on them is never going to die.having said that,i think ipad is pretty cool.its helpful for me at least in many ways and i admit that

  305. OK, I’ll chime in late. I love flash “possibilities,” the theory is great. I use Adobe CS products all the time and the ideas behind them could be great. But like so many others have already said – Adobe had treated Apple like a neighbor instead of family the past few years of their development cycle, and not just crappy flash performance, but always seeming to give priority to the Widows side of things (I use both and the bias has been obvious)

    But let’s play fair, it’s still about one proprietary tech against another and the whole “open standards” explanation is a crock – unless I’m mistaken Apple owns H.264 – have I missed something here? They just make their money more on the back end (licensing the codec) unlike Adobe who controls the creation and viewing of flash content.

  306. Well really i do beilve looking at how evrything works i mean come on the statitics are true 70% of web content is blocked on my ipod and my computer needs the dam constant updates. It’s really time they eighter make a new one or make it more avialibe but as ushall the apple industry is Numero Uno – Greddy (Hi at least it kid friendly). But flash seems to me might actully be carrying. The real Question Is does Apple actully care to accept that the help from flash or does apple go on and be itslelf. Lol Oh by the way im suprised apple hasent done the I’TV you know give it netflix blockbuster hi even internet but i think the tv companys have that covered

  307. Flash is a huge problem on my MacBook Pro. It’s painfully unstable, and makes demands on my processor that limit my ability to do other tasks. It’s pretty much my only consistent cause of browser crashes. The moment I learned I could turn it off on YouTube a few days, I did, and I look forward to being able to do the same with other web video.
    I used to like Flash a lot, and I use a variety of Adobe products. If you want Apple to support your technology, make it work.

    • We’re working hard to get Flash Player to work well on all sorts of devices, including Apple’s.

  308. While it is great that HTML 5 is on the way I dont see why we cant have the option to view flash just because someone decided that they think flash wont be around for long. Being realistic it will be at least 1-2 years, if not longer, before most web sites are converted to HTML 5. You cant live in the future while ignoring the present.

  309. It’s really scarry to see how mac-fans are behaving more and more like fanatic religious.
    If someone doesn’t believe in your god, he should be killed, right?

    I think the main issue here is not weither flash is good or not, or who likes or dislikes it.
    Yes, HTML5 is better and is the future.
    But how in hell does that justify “banning” flash from the ipad?

    Tim Richards

  310. Ipad does not include flash, because apple wants you to pay for content in apple store or by subscriptions trough propietary applications (newspapers, magazines etc)…period. I have an android tablet, runs flash without any problem. I would prefer an Ipad, but without flash…no way.

    The argument that flash is resource intesive, buggy etc, is pure bulshit

  311. I am very disapointed like the rest of the world in those restrictions. In year 2010 there shouldnt be any. You can’t use Hotmaill acount with Firefox, no Flash, no this and that?
    Annoucing product lines 5-6 months in advance? Where this all go? I’m not buyin anything any more. Software upgrades every day? Hardware upgrades every year or less. Few added features that had to be there in the first place?

  312. Most of the Mac users have really missed the point. It is not really about liking Flash or not. This is one company telling you, the user, that you are not aloud to use software on your CPU that you paid for with your money. Not because it will break your unit, but because “we say so”. If YOU don’t like Flash, you can chose to boy-cot it yourself, but you don’t even have that choice. You are all so caught up in the iCraze that you are willing to be abused to be part of it.

    While it may eventually be true that Flash will die, it isn’t going to happen for a very long time. Yack about HTML5 all you want, but it requires the end-user to have new hardware with new software. Not all vendors are willing to cut their market share by 20% or better (yes this is a random percent), or to spend bundles money re-making something that already works. If you don’t think this is true, just look at how many companies are STILL using COBAL and Fortran.

    I personally think that while this may hurt Flash in the short term, it will kill Apples iStuff in the long term. There are already option out there without these ridiculous restrictions. Over time, the iCultists will be outnumbered and slowly need to change their tone just to get the latest software.

  313. I have an iPad and love most things about it. I am traveling in Asia and relying on the Pad to stay connected and browse. The lack of Flash is a problem with me. Had I know it would not have Flash, I would not have purchased it in the beginning. Adobe is everywhere on existing sites and has been around for a while. to market a device that will not use the standards that widlely exist in the industry is counter productive. I would be buying more iPads for my company,but…..not without flash. The users are the ones that loose. It is not important what all of the webmasters think.

  314. HTML5 is better but banning flash from the ipad is just crazy!

    Does anyone really need an ipad anyway? complete waist of cash IMHO (yes mine broke)